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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 00:21

@False Son wrote:
@withershadow wrote:

Did you ever run into a situation where you went for Failure is not an Option, and failed to kill something thus losing special weapon dudes instead of grunts? As always blasters suffer from one missises, one fails to wound, the last rolls a 1 for damage disease, at least for me.

Shredders seemed to do better just due to potential volume of fire.

I want to love Shredders, especially Obsidian Rose Shredders.  They just fulfill a role I don't need.  I tend to take the much malighened Dark Lance with my two Blasters, so I can reliably kills at least one marine between the 3 shots and save myself.
What if you only take 1 or 2 morale casualties? Do you just risk the shot?

Quote :
Quote :
Also, Beastmasters and beasts only belong in Ynnari anyway. Sad

Not terribly familiar with Ynnari.  Howe do they fit in there?

I have nothing against beasts.  I'm a big fan of Clawed Fiends bullying Primaris.  The Beastmaster is the worst unit in the Drukhari codex, IMO.  You have to buy it, the Beasts are dependent on it, the point cost is too high, there aren't enough equipment options, and it is super frail.
The biggest is Yncarne giving them a 5++/6+++ and Fearless, making razorwing flocks super duper annoying (anyone remember the very first era of 8th edition, where razorwing spam was THE list to beat? good times). And of course re-roll to wound if you need it, although probably not.

The other beasts are sadly crapola, IMO. Beastmaster functions as a cheap way to get that third elite unit in a Ynnari spearhead, but I agree he sucks. Cronos is worse though.

Regarding the salt about Necron morale, their battleshock represents not running away in terror, but falling asleep. They are like locusts, the more of them there are, the more active and aggressive they are.
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False Son
Kabalite Warrior
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 02:44

@False Son wrote:

I see the 6 to hit auto wounding as more of a hand out to Sslyth and Ur-Ghouls.  With Ur-Ghouls being in the Blackstone Fortress box, might be worth a try.

A thought occurred when resenting how the first part of this trait was only useful on Turn 1.  It applies to models without Power from Pain?  If so, this trait is totally a hand out to Ur-Ghouls and Sslyth.

@withershadow wrote:

What if you only take 1 or 2 morale casualties? Do you just risk the shot?  

Sometimes.  If I think it can make a huge difference.

Quote :
The other beasts are sadly crapola, IMO. Beastmaster functions as a cheap way to get that third elite unit in a Ynnari spearhead, but I agree he sucks. Cronos is worse though.

I've been depending on Clawed Fiends to eat up Overwatches.  But, I am now eyeballing Slashing Impact/Test of Skill Reavers to replace that.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 10:00

Just got the digital version of Phoenix Rising and noticed a buff for Incubi I hadn't realised was there until now: the Lethal Precision special rule (+2 damage on a wound roll of 6) applies to all Incubi, not just the Klaivex anymore.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 11:28

@Kantalla wrote:
Just got the digital version of Phoenix Rising and noticed a buff for Incubi I hadn't realised was there until now: the Lethal Precision special rule (+2 damage on a wound roll of 6) applies to all Incubi, not just the Klaivex anymore.

yes this was known since the previews, its a nice change cant wait to test them out near Drazhar to see how they perform
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 12:23

I am massively disappointed in how little there is for Drukhari in the final book. There's literally, like, two pages of fluff, two updated datasheets, and then three pages of custom obsessions. Great.

I think Harlequins might be screwed as well, because the book takes great care to point out that the Ynnari Index can be used as supplementary material for Codex: Harlequins.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 13:28

At this point i hope they dont get anything from this and they get a 2.0 codex.

But i fear they will be in Book 2 and force me to buy both freaking books.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 15:04

@amishprn86 wrote:
At this point i hope they dont get anything from this and they get a 2.0 codex.

But i fear they will be in Book 2 and force me to buy both freaking books.
i thought the next books were rumored to be templars v chaos, blood angels v nids, wolves vs orks
?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 15:17

@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
At this point i hope they dont get anything from this and they get a 2.0 codex.

But i fear they will be in Book 2 and force me to buy both freaking books.
i thought the next books were rumored to be templars v chaos, blood angels v nids, wolves vs orks
?

They released fluff bits for harlequins afterwords.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 15:19

@Burnage wrote:
I am massively disappointed in how little there is for Drukhari in the final book. There's literally, like, two pages of fluff, two updated datasheets, and then three pages of custom obsessions. Great.

No, no, it's fine. You see our faction was split into 3 and thus we got a total of 23 custom Obsessions whilst the Eldar only got 21 Craftworld options.

I mean, who wouldn't take 2 more Obsessions over a whole new psychic discipline and a table of powers for every sergeant equivalent in the army?

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 16:09

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
I am massively disappointed in how little there is for Drukhari in the final book. There's literally, like, two pages of fluff, two updated datasheets, and then three pages of custom obsessions. Great.

No, no, it's fine. You see our faction was split into 3 and thus we got a total of 23 custom Obsessions whilst the Eldar only got 21 Craftworld options.

I mean, who wouldn't take 2 more Obsessions over a whole new psychic discipline and a table of powers for every sergeant equivalent in the army?

On the flip side, almost none of the Craftworlds rules are really setting the world on fire. There are a couple of exceptions like Witch Strike for Conclaves, the 2++ for Shining Spears (which is of course rerollable) and +1 to hit for Crimson Hunter Exarchs... but on the whole there's a lot of garbage in there.

I dunno. This just feels like a really weak release all round, and it's telling how quickly discussion of it on wider forums has faded in favour of Marine Supplements of the Week #5 and 6.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 16:39

@Burnage wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
I am massively disappointed in how little there is for Drukhari in the final book. There's literally, like, two pages of fluff, two updated datasheets, and then three pages of custom obsessions. Great.

No, no, it's fine. You see our faction was split into 3 and thus we got a total of 23 custom Obsessions whilst the Eldar only got 21 Craftworld options.

I mean, who wouldn't take 2 more Obsessions over a whole new psychic discipline and a table of powers for every sergeant equivalent in the army?

On the flip side, almost none of the Craftworlds rules are really setting the world on fire. There are a couple of exceptions like Witch Strike for Conclaves, the 2++ for Shining Spears (which is of course rerollable) and +1 to hit for Crimson Hunter Exarchs... but on the whole there's a lot of garbage in there.

I dunno. This just feels like a really weak release all round, and it's telling how quickly discussion of it on wider forums has faded in favour of Marine Supplements of the Week #5 and 6.

I mean, even on GW's own site the announcements for Phoenix Rising were quickly buried beneath mountains of Marine news.

But I agree that it does seem a very anaemic release.

If I was being really cynical, I'd suggest that they were originally planning to release proper DE & Eldar supplements. However, something changed - maybe they wanted them early to push them out with another release, maybe the writers were redirected to other projects, maybe they just lost interest and couldn't be bothered finishing them. Whatever the case, they didn't have enough material for a dedicated Eldar or DE supplement, so instead they combined them and then added the Ynnari rules and some name-generation tables just to pad it out even more.

I'll freely admit that this is cynical even by my standards, but it just feels like a very rushed release with no real thought whatsoever put into it.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 18:41

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
I am massively disappointed in how little there is for Drukhari in the final book. There's literally, like, two pages of fluff, two updated datasheets, and then three pages of custom obsessions. Great.

No, no, it's fine. You see our faction was split into 3 and thus we got a total of 23 custom Obsessions whilst the Eldar only got 21 Craftworld options.

I mean, who wouldn't take 2 more Obsessions over a whole new psychic discipline and a table of powers for every sergeant equivalent in the army?

On the flip side, almost none of the Craftworlds rules are really setting the world on fire. There are a couple of exceptions like Witch Strike for Conclaves, the 2++ for Shining Spears (which is of course rerollable) and +1 to hit for Crimson Hunter Exarchs... but on the whole there's a lot of garbage in there.

I dunno. This just feels like a really weak release all round, and it's telling how quickly discussion of it on wider forums has faded in favour of Marine Supplements of the Week #5 and 6.

I mean, even on GW's own site the announcements for Phoenix Rising were quickly buried beneath mountains of Marine news.

But I agree that it does seem a very anaemic release.

If I was being really cynical, I'd suggest that they were originally planning to release proper DE & Eldar supplements. However, something changed - maybe they wanted them early to push them out with another release, maybe the writers were redirected to other projects, maybe they just lost interest and couldn't be bothered finishing them. Whatever the case, they didn't have enough material for a dedicated Eldar or DE supplement, so instead they combined them and then added the Ynnari rules and some name-generation tables just to pad it out even more.

I'll freely admit that this is cynical even by my standards, but it just feels like a very rushed release with no real thought whatsoever put into it.

I'd be willing to bet that's what happened. If we look back to previous editions, we had the Iyanden supplement in 6th and the Haemonculus Covens supplement in 7th. The former was basically an entire fluff book with 2 pages of rules, the latter a complete overhaul for a third of the army. Clearly, when GW wants to release a supplement, be it for flavor or rules, they will do it even for the smaller factions. There is no reason why the Eldar and Dark Eldar needed to be squished into this one book, especially with such paltry rules additions.

If I was to guess, I'd say this book was originally intended to be an entire Ynnari book, but after the constant backlash that army was receiving over its entire existence in the game, they had to last-minute rewrite it after the White Dwarf article was settled on. Also if the recent Space Marines release tells us anything it's that GW still doesn't know how to write a balanced rule set to save their lives.

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 19 2019, 20:10

The final product seems like something that had managerial meddling involved. Whether it is the selection of models, the rules or the pricing point, it is hard to imagine the people responsible for putting this together were thinking they nailed it.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 02:09

It's annoying that they felt the need to nerf a few of the Ynarri abilities. United in Death got increased to 2CP. Word of the Phoenix only resurrects a dead model on a 4+ now. Did they playtest it and decide that it wasn't bad enough?
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 08:26

@DevilDoll wrote:
@Kantalla wrote:
Just got the digital version of Phoenix Rising and noticed a buff for Incubi I hadn't realised was there until now: the Lethal Precision special rule (+2 damage on a wound roll of 6) applies to all Incubi, not just the Klaivex anymore.

yes this was known since the previews, its a nice change cant wait to test them out near Drazhar to see how they perform
Unfortunately they also nerfed lethal precision to only work on unmodified 6s.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 08:29

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

I mean, even on GW's own site the announcements for Phoenix Rising were quickly buried beneath mountains of Marine news.
Right you are! It doesn't even show up on the community page until you load more posts, and the book/box came out today!
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 12:18

@krayd wrote:
It's annoying that they felt the need to nerf a few of the Ynarri abilities. United in Death got increased to 2CP. Word of the Phoenix only resurrects a dead model on a 4+ now. Did they playtest it and decide that it wasn't bad enough?

"I just got word that at least two people are still playing Ynnari! Quick, get the nerf-bat!"

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Rusty293
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 13:58

I think the points that people have made that this is our equivalent of Vigilus should be considered, when comparing this release to what the Marines have got. I think the new obsessions and rules for Drazhar and Incubi put us in a good place as a codex. Coupled with a few points drops in chapter approved and that would leave me very happy.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 15:23

@Rusty293 wrote:
I think the points that people have made that this is our equivalent of Vigilus should be considered, when comparing this release to what the Marines have got. I think the new obsessions and rules for Drazhar and Incubi put us in a good place as a codex. Coupled with a few points drops in chapter approved and that would leave me very happy.

I am thinking this, as well. It doesn't make much sense to bury the custom obsession rules, etc in a book in a set that expensive. Unless, the point is to avoid making new codexes.
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Ripper.McGuirl
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 16:55

I am a verrryy casual player, mostly playing Kill Team, Heresy, and necromunda. I am pretty disappointed in this book. The Vigilus books were great fun, and seemed like GW main getting as close to an Imperial Armor book as they were willing to do. Even leaving out the fact that the rules in this book are lackluster and partially just a reprint, it is still far inferior. It is less than half as long, the background is mostly summarizing other published lore, there is next to no new art, none of the color plates, extra maps, locations, or dramatis personae, the battlefield rules are barely there, and there is none of the fun campaign rules.
Overall, this feels like they had a fun idea and then decided to change course and just released what they had. They have been hyping a Psychic Awakening and...there is nothing really talking about that in this book (in the whopping 10 pages of background).
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 17:50

For what it’s worth, the fluff isn’t much better.

Spoiler:
 
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 17:51

@withershadow wrote:
For what it’s worth, the fluff isn’t much better.

Spoiler:
 

Oh cool. Way to kill any interest I had in Drazhar, GW.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 18:04

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
For what it’s worth, the fluff isn’t much better.

Spoiler:
 

Oh cool. Way to kill any interest I had in Drazhar, GW.

I love it when interesting plot-hooks and speculations are written in stone, thus removing anything even remotely intriguing about the character.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 18:53

@withershadow wrote:
For what it’s worth, the fluff isn’t much better.

Spoiler:
 

wow thats awful
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 28 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 18:55

It seems like Black Templars are kinda confirmed as next army in the psychic awakening
and as they are absent from the imperial fists supplement I think it's very likely that they'll get some sort of space marine supplementesque treatment in the new book
So new rules, stratagems and relics
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