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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2019, 00:17

I've bet you heard about the new drop pod rules? No? Well SM drop pods can now DS turn 1 (Still outside of 9" and disembarked units must be outside of 9" as well).

And you heard that they, if a full army is inside drop pods (any unit inside and the drop pod itself ignore the 50% start on table rules).

So you also problem heard many players are are Null deploying full armies (3 dev, 3 vets, 3 sternguard, etc..).

SO... how are we going to handle thing? Well easy!


Well make sure you have Ravagers and some Venoms (not to hard lol! ) and make sure you have at least 3 throw away kabal units (Bubble wrap).

Ok ready for the trick? Charge the Drop pods with your Ravagers/Venoms and watch as they can not shoot you, then fallback, shoot, next turn charge again, repeat, they will only get 2 turns to shoot you.


PS: this is making the rounds as a joke on other forums, i thought it was fun idea that will work if this happen.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2019, 16:50

I'm really curious what the two week FAQ comes up with. This one seems really straight forward in print, but practically it looks like a pickle of a rule.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2019, 19:56

They will probably get counted the same as a building, which would negate all of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15 2019, 23:12

It is a proper tactics, and it always been the major drawback for pods. Against many armies it's basically a saving life for the opponent, and a weakness for the marine.


Now they almost got the T1 alphastrike bonus..
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 06:23

You should still be very careful with your placement when doing this. If your opponent is smart, he'll try to surround your venoms, punch them to death (which isn't that difficult for marines to do, especially with their shiny new rules), and autokill anything inside of it due to not having room to disembark.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 07:55

A total null deploy would be risky as hell. I haven't checked it, but my current DE army could screen most, if not all the board (depending on deployment map) on the first turn. Other space marines with scout moves and the 12" deepstrike denial would be problematic too. It'd be a funny game though, I'd like someone to try it Vs me at some point just to see if I can do it!
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 15:40

Just remember - if they null deploy and have nothing on the table end of Battle Round 1 (either they put absolutely nothing down, or you kill what little they have) you Win!
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 16:36

@Faitherun wrote:
Just remember - if they null deploy and have nothing on the table end of Battle Round 1 (either they put absolutely nothing down, or you kill what little they have) you Win!

This depends on mission type now, doesn't it? I thought some of the Chapter Approved missions allowed the game to continue even if one player has nothing on the board.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 16:55

I think that is just for scoring. It used to be that if you tabled your opponent you won. That generated *possible* situations where player A has 20 points, Player B has 1 point, but then Player B tables A and gets a victory.


That said... If I ever get tabled I'm usually getting a sound thumping.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 19:09

Nope, new CA missions took away the rule you auto win, and ofc we can flood the table to stop the drop pods from coming, it was more of a joke topic about the "Sky is falling" i keep seeing to remind everyone we can charge drop pods to stop being shot at.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 19:22

I was able to use a drop pod to keep a knight from being shot for two turns. It was kinda nice. Step back, shoot everything else, step in and attack with a melee weapon. Rinse and repeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2019, 20:58

Even if you aren't playing CA2018, the sudden death rule in the brb is at the end of any turn (meaning player turn) AFTER the first battle round, the game ends if you're tabled. Meaning if you go first you can wait until t2 to drop, or if you're second then your turn 1. Either way that's zero models on the table to be shot for an opponent's turn. I'm not well versed in ITC but I don't know if they have an alternate rule.

I agree it's a bit of a sky is falling point of view but I like weird angles to approach the game and that's up there. Good against gun lines with no mobility.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 17 2019, 18:19

I'm more worried about the new sniper guys and the Dreads.

After seeing those 3D guys for 33 points, they are basically better than Lascannon Dev's (2 wounds cus primaris, and its Str 7) Las Dev is 37pts unless the Las is cheaper and i missed it.

The Dreads can Deploy our 9", so it can easily get to you turn 1


A normal list after looking that isnt White Scars: Some characters, a couple troops, some Sniper guys, a couple dreads, a couple impolsors, 2-3 Drop pods with Stre/vets/Devs and then filler for flavor, like more tanks, more characters, etc..

Whirlwinds are actually knida nice now too (I've always liked them, they are so freaking cheap and can hide) but now they get more rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 16:23

@amishprn86 wrote:
I'm more worried about the new sniper guys and the Dreads.

What do the sniper guys do?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 17:12

Here they are

Eliminator: Primaris Stats (Marines stats with 2 wounds +1 attack)
72pts for the 3 man unit (with all its gear)

Camo cloaks
If every model in a unit has a camo cloak you can add 2 to saving throws made for models in the unit when they receive the benefits of cover, instead of 1.

Concealed Positions
When you set up this unit during deployment, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

Bolt sniper rifle - Executioner round
36" Heavy 1, Str 4, -2ap, D3: If you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

Bolt sniper rifle - Mortis round
36" Heavy 1, str4, -1ap, 1D
This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer. Add 2 to hit rolls made for this weapon. Units do not receive the benefit of cover to their saving throws against attacks made with this weapon.

Finally Sargent has a anti-charge rule (I forgot the name) that lets you fire overwatch THEN MOVE, so you cant be charged.




PS: So as Raven guard in cover they are -1 to hit 2+ save ignores a point of Rend (b.c +2 to saves due to camo cloaks) unless its ignore cover.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 19:59

@amishprn86 wrote:
Here they are

Eliminator: Primaris Stats (Marines stats with 2 wounds +1 attack)
72pts for the 3 man unit (with all its gear)

Camo cloaks
If every model in a unit has a camo cloak you can add 2 to saving throws made for models in the unit when they receive the benefits of cover, instead of 1.

Concealed Positions
When you set up this unit during deployment, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

Bolt sniper rifle - Executioner round
36" Heavy 1, Str 4, -2ap, D3: If you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

Bolt sniper rifle - Mortis round
36" Heavy 1, str4, -1ap, 1D
This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer. Add 2 to hit rolls made for this weapon. Units do not receive the benefit of cover to their saving throws against attacks made with this weapon.

Finally Sargent has a anti-charge rule (I forgot the name) that lets you fire overwatch THEN MOVE, so you cant be charged.


PS: So as Raven guard in cover they are -1 to hit 2+ save ignores a point of Rend (b.c +2 to saves due to camo cloaks) unless its ignore cover.

Thanks very much. Smile

S4 AP-2 d3 damage (plus mortal wounds on 6s) on a regular sniper rifle is pretty damn brutal. Kinda puts the Soul Seeker to shame.

Not a fan of them being able to move after overwatch (of all the units to give that sort of defensive mobility to, Primaris really don't seem like the right choice).

All that said, 72pts for 3 shots isn't that cheap, though from the sound of it their defensive abilities might more than make up for it. Their guns aren't bad against our vehicles, either.

It does amuse me that the shot that ignores LoS is the one that gets a massive bonus to hit. Apparently not being able to see your target drastically improves your odds of hitting it.  Razz


Anyway, in terms of Dark Eldar, it will be interesting to see if these guys change our use of HQs. For example, will Archon Warlords standing in the middle of Ravagers suddenly become liabilities? Might there be more need to take transports, defensive wargear and/or tankier HQs (e.g. a Haemonculus with Nightmare Doll and Master Regenesist)?

I joked recently that a Ynnari Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Mirrorgaze could be an amusingly tanky HQ, as he'd have a 4++/5+++, enemies are at -1 to hit him and -1 to wound him, and he regains a wound each turn (with Word of the Phoenix he could potentially start the turn on 1 wound and end it back on full wounds). And with the right stratagem he can even revive from death.

Guess it depends on how much you want to protect your warlord.


Out of curiosity, has anyone had any issues with Vindicares, Kelermorphs or other snipers? Or is sniping generally a non-issue for you guys?


Also, HQs aside, I'm wondering whether Flayed Skull will become increasingly popular. Ignores Cover is looking more and more useful.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 20:06

And then add in the new stuff with the update.

Las Fusil: 36" Heavy 1, Str 8, -3ap, 3D:

Plus, without trying to sound patronising here, you've missed a type of round, 'hyperfrag' I think?
The new update makes all the rounds base Str 5, all rounds able to target characters.


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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 20:09

Minor tweak - the sniper rifle a are S5 now. So even a ham is a decent target.

Still, Flayed Skull is looking good for ignoring cover.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 21:04

I dont have all the rules right now, i'll get the book later, but my local comp marine player is getting 3 of them.

I know there are other rules for them that makes them better but i cant get them just yet.

They are (after all their rules) better than Devs

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 21:16

One interesting buff that the Marines got is that the stratagem to gain new relics is now only 1 CP per relic, with no limit to the number that you can take. If that spreads throughout updates it'll make kitting out our HQs a bit cheaper, although the downside right now is that it potentially makes Smash Captains a bit scarier.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 22:26

Well SM smash captains are nothing compare to BA ones, SM smash captains are still good, but still not as good. At least if they do soup they lose some new rules (Docs are 100% must be mono).

I'm not to worried about a couple extra relics, if you soup you can do that to a point right now, with Ynnari+CWE+DE or Quins, you can have 4 relics for 3CP (1, +1 stratagem from 3 books), marines can do that now too, so if someone really want 6-7 relics, ok, they will spend an extra 2-3CP, not to big of a deall

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 18 2019, 22:45

@Sarcron wrote:
And then add in the new stuff with the update.

Las Fusil: 36" Heavy 1, Str 8, -3ap, 3D:

Shocked

Bloody hell.


@Myrvn wrote:
Minor tweak - the sniper rifle a are S5 now. So even a ham is a decent target.

I mean, it's at least wounding the Haemonculus on 4s instead of 3s but yeah. This is sounding pretty damn brutal.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 19 2019, 00:47

Yep and for 72pts, take units 3 of them and every character is in trouble.

The problem will be that drop pods (at least 2-3) will come down turn 1, so it will be hard to target them, they can shoot without LoS.....

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 19 2019, 12:02

@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally Sargent has a anti-charge rule (I forgot the name) that lets you fire overwatch THEN MOVE, so you cant be charged.
The rules are out, and the sergeant only has that rule if he gives up his sniper rifle for a weaker something-bolt gun with shorter range. They only come in units of three, so it diminishes them a lot as snipers.

I think they look like a good unit, and facing them will force me to reconsider placement of characters. They don't seem overly powerful, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US!   Drop Pod spam a problem? NOT FOR US! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 19 2019, 19:46

@TSkouboe wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally Sargent has a anti-charge rule (I forgot the name) that lets you fire overwatch THEN MOVE, so you cant be charged.
The rules are out, and the sergeant only has that rule if he gives up his sniper rifle for a weaker something-bolt gun with shorter range. They only come in units of three, so it diminishes them a lot as snipers.

I think they look like a good unit, and facing them will force me to reconsider placement of characters. They don't seem overly powerful, though.

I'll look, my friends are all happy about it, might be an option or something, or stratagem.

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