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 Best use for Archons?

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yellabelly
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yellabelly

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PostSubject: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 16:29

Obviously one Archon wants to be sat on his backside, reading aloud the Writ of the Living Muse to 3 Ravagers.

But what do you do with the other 1 or 2 Archons that may be in your list? In match ups that need it, I'll have one carrying the Helm of Spite behind my front lines. But I have 3 Archons to make my detachments, and what do I do with the other one (or two if I don't need Psychic defense)?
I was toying with the idea of stuffing them both in a venom, and letting them go character hunting. 25mm bases, good move and being infantry let's them slip through ruins and makes them harder to screen out to get charges onto pesky characters hiding further back. Huskblades might not be amazing, but should be ok for chopping down the odd character, especially if you manage to get two on the job.

Any other suggestions to try and get some use from them? And please don't complain too much about the Archon if you can help it. We all know the issues with them, but I'm trying to find a way to get some/any value back from the extra ones.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 17:27

@yellabelly wrote:
Obviously one Archon wants to be sat on his backside, reading aloud the Writ of the Living Muse to 3 Ravagers.

But what do you do with the other 1 or 2 Archons that may be in your list? In match ups that need it, I'll have one carrying the Helm of Spite behind my front lines. But I have 3 Archons to make my detachments, and what do I do with the other one (or two if I don't need Psychic defense)?
I was toying with the idea of stuffing them both in a venom, and letting them go character hunting. 25mm bases, good move and being infantry let's them slip through ruins and makes them harder to screen out to get charges onto pesky characters hiding further back. Huskblades might not be amazing, but should be ok for chopping down the odd character, especially if you manage to get two on the job.

Any other suggestions to try and get some use from them? And please don't complain too much about the Archon if you can help it. We all know the issues with them, but I'm trying to find a way to get some/any value back from the extra ones.

"Archons sucks! They should improve them!!!!"

Seriously, I equip them with the cheapest equipment possible and send him near the frontline where he can give a few reroll. I don't expect much of them, but they don't cost too much when they're naked.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 17:31

When I run a second Archon, I usually either have them as another backline objective holder or leave them on-foot and run them as a distraction melee unit. I expect very little from them but most opponents will tend to focus on characters, and with some lucky rolling the Shadowfield can tank a lot of damage.
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krayd
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krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 19:07

Generally, my archon is by itself inside a spearhead. However, if I'm running a kabal battalion in addition to that, I give the other two archons blasters and stick them in a venom (along with either a llamean or sslyth as a mortal wound sponge in case the venom gets blown up while everyone is inside), and give them an anti-tank support / picking off (character) targets of opportunity role.
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 19:30

@dumpeal wrote:
@yellabelly wrote:
Obviously one Archon wants to be sat on his backside, reading aloud the Writ of the Living Muse to 3 Ravagers.

But what do you do with the other 1 or 2 Archons that may be in your list? In match ups that need it, I'll have one carrying the Helm of Spite behind my front lines. But I have 3 Archons to make my detachments, and what do I do with the other one (or two if I don't need Psychic defense)?
I was toying with the idea of stuffing them both in a venom, and letting them go character hunting. 25mm bases, good move and being infantry let's them slip through ruins and makes them harder to screen out to get charges onto pesky characters hiding further back. Huskblades might not be amazing, but should be ok for chopping down the odd character, especially if you manage to get two on the job.

Any other suggestions to try and get some use from them? And please don't complain too much about the Archon if you can help it. We all know the issues with them, but I'm trying to find a way to get some/any value back from the extra ones.

"Archons sucks! They should improve them!!!!"

Seriously, I equip them with the cheapest equipment possible and send him near the frontline where he can give a few reroll. I don't expect much of them, but they don't cost too much when they're naked.

Yeah this, but coming from SoB side (I also play them) a Canoness is the same thing but for 45pts, tho no 2++ its a 3+/4++ lol

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 20:18

@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@yellabelly wrote:
Obviously one Archon wants to be sat on his backside, reading aloud the Writ of the Living Muse to 3 Ravagers.

But what do you do with the other 1 or 2 Archons that may be in your list? In match ups that need it, I'll have one carrying the Helm of Spite behind my front lines. But I have 3 Archons to make my detachments, and what do I do with the other one (or two if I don't need Psychic defense)?
I was toying with the idea of stuffing them both in a venom, and letting them go character hunting. 25mm bases, good move and being infantry let's them slip through ruins and makes them harder to screen out to get charges onto pesky characters hiding further back. Huskblades might not be amazing, but should be ok for chopping down the odd character, especially if you manage to get two on the job.

Any other suggestions to try and get some use from them? And please don't complain too much about the Archon if you can help it. We all know the issues with them, but I'm trying to find a way to get some/any value back from the extra ones.

"Archons sucks! They should improve them!!!!"

Seriously, I equip them with the cheapest equipment possible and send him near the frontline where he can give a few reroll. I don't expect much of them, but they don't cost too much when they're naked.

Yeah this, but coming from SoB side (I also play them) a Canoness is the same thing but for 45pts, tho no 2++ its a 3+/4++ lol

I do with what I have
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 25 2019, 20:57

I don't run black heart... so I never have one dedicated to record player duty (writ of the living muse recital) but I tend to give one the parasites kiss and either leave him with the husk blade or give him a venom blade, than the other is basically the same but with a blast pistol, then I use them as deep strike denial (keep them in or near buildings that I don't want my opponent to deep strike in ... usually with an objective inside) and then just as a melee beat noodle (can't quite be a beat stick ...) to beat up on or hold up any troops that come for that objective, they usually last a couple combat phases ... long enough so I can bring in other stuff to help
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 12:56

Well, firstly, I play Poison Tongue so no Writ Archon for me. Though even if I did use Black Heart I'm not sure I would use the Writ. To my mind Archons are boring enough already without being confined to the role of Overpriced Master of Ordnance.

Anyway, my Warlord Archon usually gets the Soul Seeker and will try to take a few pot-shots with it whilst staying out of harm's way. Occasionally he'll kill a minor character but really he rarely manages to do much of note with it. It's also exempt from the Poison Tongue bonus (I mean, why would it benefit, it's only the artefact unique to Poison Tongue? Rolling Eyes ) so naturally he rolls at least one 1 on every wound roll.

As for my second Archon, I've sometimes put one in a Venom with 3 Lhamaeans (and/or any other spare HQs) and basically used it as a suicide squad. Occasionally they'll do something worthwhile but most of the time their transport gets shot down and they just end up stranded in no man's land.

I don't like having bare-bones HQs as I try to have at least some flavourful choices in my list - especially for characters. But I'm really struggling to muster enthusiasm for any piece of gear for Archons.

I'm currently messing around with a mix of Dark Eldar and Ynnari Harlequins for a Kabal of the Wraithkind themed army. Depending on how it goes, I might shift my focus to the Harlequin character(s) and basically abandon my Archons altogether. Either way, it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify buying a transport and Court for them.


@amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah this, but coming from SoB side (I also play them) a Canoness is the same thing but for 45pts, tho no 2++ its a 3+/4++ lol

For me a 3+/4++ that doesn't go away is a *vast* improvement over a 2++ that only lasts until it's failed.

To my mind the current Shadowfield rules are one of the absolute worst aspects of Archons (and that's saying something). And what's worse is that GW seems to value them as being about 25pts more valuable than other, vastly preferable defensive options.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 17:24

One with Djinn Blade one with Hungering Blade throw em into the mix
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 18:00

I have used one with huskblade and blast pistol with Hatred Eternal. Run up the middle in a Venom with a Lhamaean and a Succubus. Lhamaean is really good at soaking mortal wounds or poor dice roles on exploding vehicles. And they do a surprising amount of damage for a 15 point model.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 18:39

@Myrvn wrote:
I have used one with huskblade and blast pistol with Hatred Eternal. Run up the middle in a Venom with a Lhamaean and a Succubus. Lhamaean is really good at soaking mortal wounds or poor dice roles on exploding vehicles. And they do a surprising amount of damage for a 15 point model.

Lhameans would be amazing if you could collate them into a 4 man squad and use united in death on them for an additional attack.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 22:48

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Though even if I did use Black Heart I'm not sure I would use the Writ. To my mind Archons are boring enough already without being confined to the role of Overpriced Master of Ordnance.

For what it's worth, the Writ is powerful even if you're putting it on a front-line Archon - you're basically giving a 6 inch bubble access to a better version of the Poisoned Tongue Obsession. There isn't really a situation where you shouldn't be taking it if you have a Black Heart Archon.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26 2019, 23:07

For the models that I have, Flayed Skull does so much more. That said, I also struggle with bringing two Kabals, so it is A or B for me instead of A&B. But the Kabal selected really seems to really drive what wargear may be helpful.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 27 2019, 15:33

I find it funny that so many people hate Archons. O have shadowfield PTSD just like anyone playing Dark Eldar for long enough, but Hatred Eternal makes them work just fine. The husk blade is a great weapon, the only issue is the Archon's low strength to begin with. Re-rolling all wounds (both shooting and CC) largely takes care of that.

Recently, I've been using a Ynnarchon as my warlord. He's got a CP regeneration warlord trait and the Hungering Blade. I use him to give re-rolls to ravagers for the most part, but he tends to get some action patrolling the backfield.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 27 2019, 18:16

Oh yea fully juiced with a relic and a trait makes them much more useful. It's trying to find uses for the other archons in a list, that don't get all the shiny upgrades that's the challenge. I'm leaning towards mop up duties, objective sitting and just generally floating about.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 27 2019, 19:19

@sekac wrote:
but Hatred Eternal makes them work just fine.

So why isn't it standard?

I shouldn't need a 1-per-army warlord trait (usually combined with a relic) to make a 3-per-army unit actually worth a damn.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 28 2019, 00:30

Deepstrike denial, countercharge, objective sitting, half-solitaire-ish works, killing other objective sittings, spread reroll's aura, tarpit...
Whenit is mandatory, it is a great piece for his cost.

If you play with the Index, I like the PGL on him. It makes the smite-effect stratagem way more reliable.
His 2++ is amazing. It sucks when you have it build into a valuable unit, but it's amazing when it's built into an expendable one (basically because when it works it rocks, and when it fails you're just losing nothng). And the 2nd Archon is, so go and tarpit.

He is basically a super cheap Jack-of-all-trades. You can do a lot of little stuffs with him. Considering that he is mandatory, it is pretty good.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 28 2019, 18:15

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@sekac wrote:
but Hatred Eternal makes them work just fine.

So why isn't it standard?

I shouldn't need a 1-per-army warlord trait (usually combined with a relic) to make a 3-per-army unit actually worth a damn.

I take your point, I'm certainly not making the case that they're a great buy, I just don't have the hatred most seem to.

I usually run a single Kabal battalion so I'm not in the position of needing to justify 3 archons. 2 I can do though. One to give re-rolls to ravagers and roam the backfield. One with a warlord trait (I don't usually spring for the relic unless it's Ynnari) to go mess some stuff up in CC. He's not a fantastic beatstick but he can punch above his 76 point weight if you know what he can handle and what he can't.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 03:33

@krayd wrote:
Generally, my archon is by itself inside a spearhead. However, if I'm running a kabal battalion in addition to that, I give the other two archons blasters and stick them in a venom (along with either a llamean or sslyth as a mortal wound sponge in case the venom gets blown up while everyone is inside), and give them an anti-tank support / picking off (character) targets of opportunity role.

Court of the Archon is a decent way of getting a Kabal melee unit. No Mercenaries, Wychs or Covens needed.

Poisoned Tongue with Lhamaens have rerollable to-hits, and functionally rerollable to-wounds at 2+ that cause Mortal Wounds on 6s, 5+ on turn 3.
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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 04:20

@False Son wrote:
@krayd wrote:
Generally, my archon is by itself inside a spearhead. However, if I'm running a kabal battalion in addition to that, I give the other two archons blasters and stick them in a venom (along with either a llamean or sslyth as a mortal wound sponge in case the venom gets blown up while everyone is inside), and give them an anti-tank support / picking off (character) targets of opportunity role.

Court of the Archon is a decent way of getting a Kabal melee unit.  No Mercenaries, Wychs or Covens needed.

Poisoned Tongue with Lhamaens have rerollable to-hits, and functionally rerollable to-wounds at 2+ that cause Mortal Wounds on 6s, 5+ on turn 3.

The mortal wounds are on the wounds rolls, so you'll find them being on 4+ all the time

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Best use for Archons?   Best use for Archons? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 04:24

@Sarcron wrote:

The mortal wounds are on the wounds rolls, so you'll find them being on 4+ all the time

You are correct. The turn 3 PfP is on to-hit. Still 4+ to Mortal Would is nice for 15 points.
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