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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2019, 00:03

More brainstorming on Ynnari.

Given that Ynnari is almost entirely focused around melee, one could be forgiven for thinking that it has nothing of value to offer Kabalite Warriors.

However, I'm wondering if it has one thing to offer them which could potentially make up for its downsides - Shield of Ynnead.

I'm thinking a Battalion with 6 units of 10+ Kabalites (maxing out Blasters), all grouped around Yvraine and an Archon. So long as 1 model from each of the 6 units stays within 6" of Yvraine, she can use Shield of Ynnead to give all of them a 5+ invulnerable save.

So suddenly you've got 60+ 6pt models, each with a 5++/6+++ save. And thanks to the Archon they're all rerolling 1s to hit. And if Morale is ever liable to be an issue, you can use Reborn Together for 1CP to basically give all of them +2Ld.

You could even add in a Beastmaster with Razorwing Flocks as a screening unit.


Do you think this has any potential?

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2019, 00:10

Sort of. I could see something like the Yncarne + Archon + 60-120 Kabalites providing an interesting backbone for a board control list.

The core problem is probably going to be that even with those buffs other factions out-horde us. Kabalites are dirt cheap at 6 points but they can't compete with 4 point Guard Infantry.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeThu May 16 2019, 03:04

Things that tend to chew through Kabalites efficiently do it with little or no AP - think triple Vultures, Ork Boyz making the charge, mass bolters/lasguns, mortars, so I don't think giving them a 5++ changes much. Mulching through 7 or 8 of them is easy, and the rest will flee unless you commit more Cp.

I think Ynnari Kabalites are just there to take objectives or unlock detachments on the cheap.

If you want 'tanky' Kabalites, I think a decent option is to abuse the Obsidian Rose Stratagem, with blobs of 15+ and as many Darklight weapons as you can buy - even Blast Pistols courtesy of that +6" trait. Your opponent is forced to ignore or kill them to a man, and if you can get them in cover, Hunt From The Shadows brings them to a 3+ which makes them fairly sturdy against small arms fire.

EDIT: Pistols don't get the +6" Crying or Very sad

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2019, 13:59

@Burnage wrote:
Sort of. I could see something like the Yncarne + Archon + 60-120 Kabalites providing an interesting backbone for a board control list.

The core problem is probably going to be that even with those buffs other factions out-horde us. Kabalites are dirt cheap at 6 points but they can't compete with 4 point Guard Infantry.

Regarding guard, I think the infantry compare pretty well.

The real difference is that the IG player is spending ~60pts to buff his infantry, whilst I'm spending a minimum of 204pts (409 with Yncarne) to buff mine. Razz

Regardless, I get your point.


@hydranixx wrote:
Things that tend to chew through Kabalites efficiently do it with little or no AP - think triple Vultures, Ork Boyz making the charge, mass bolters/lasguns, mortars, so I don't think giving them a 5++ changes much. Mulching through 7 or 8 of them is easy, and the rest will flee unless you commit more Cp.

Hmm, maybe you're right. I've definitely had weapons with at least some AP used to clear out Kabalites and such. However, even with a 5++/6+++, sheer volume will probably clear a good deal of them.


@hydranixx wrote:

If you want 'tanky' Kabalites, I think a decent option is to abuse the Obsidian Rose Stratagem, with blobs of 15+ and as many Darklight weapons as you can buy - even Blast Pistols courtesy of that +6" trait. Your opponent is forced to ignore or kill them to a man, and if you can get them in cover, Hunt From The Shadows brings them to a 3+ which makes them fairly sturdy against small arms fire.

EDIT: Pistols don't get the +6" Crying or Very sad


The reason I leaned towards Ynnari was because Shield of Ynnead could affect several units at once, whilst the Obsidian Rose Stratagem can only help one unit per turn (though it could still be good for a single 20-man blob).


Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks for the responses, guys.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 15:13

I mean I don't think that's a terrible idea. 60 kabalites is probably a bit much, keeping them all within a 6" bubble is a bit rough, I'd maybe downsize to 40. The slight buffs to their survivability are certainly welcome. I think it's like a lot of ynnari ideas, yeah maybe it works alright but you don't gain much compared to running kabalites as pure DE.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 15:22

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I mean I don't think that's a terrible idea. 60 kabalites is probably a bit much, keeping them all within a 6" bubble is a bit rough, I'd maybe downsize to 40.

You're probably right. The reason I suggested 60 was because you were already having to invest in an expensive character, so I thought it best to try and get your point's worth. Razz


@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
The slight buffs to their survivability are certainly welcome. I think it's like a lot of ynnari ideas, yeah maybe it works alright but you don't gain much compared to running kabalites as pure DE.

Oh, I definitely agree with you there. I like aspects of Ynnari but I think the opportunity costs of using them far outweigh their quite meagre benefits.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 16:44

Yeah it's a real shame, I really want them to work because thematically it's a cool army, but unfortunately it's just not going to hit as hard as pure version of any eldar army, or even just mixing say a kabalite battalion and a craftworld one in the same list despite the change to psychic powers. I'd say give it a whirl just for fun, but it's definetly a bit difficult to make a real solid Ynnari list it seems.


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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 20:21

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah it's a real shame, I really want them to work because thematically it's a cool army, but unfortunately it's just not going to hit as hard as pure version of any eldar army, or even just mixing say a kabalite battalion and a craftworld one in the same list despite the change to psychic powers. I'd say give it a whirl just for fun, but it's definetly a bit difficult to make a real solid Ynnari list it seems.

I'm leaning towards the idea that trying to make a whole army Ynnari is a lost cause.

I think I'll aim for a single detachment of Ynnari-Eldar in an otherwise DE army.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Kabalites   Ynnari Kabalites I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 23:09

I may do that. But to be honest, I may just do what I was doing before Gathering Storm: just play Eldar soup and use being a Ynnari cult as the fluff reason for having them together.
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