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 Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?

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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 17 2019, 23:12

That's just additional evidence that GW don't know how to write our faction.

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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 05:52

ONe of the main game testers for GW was on a podcast with FLG about the SOB beta codex, he was so happy that a good amount of their elites dont take up Detachment slots and both the FLG players sighed and said thats horrible, the tester didnt understand why...... Reeces was so fed with with him within 10sec of talking about it, he said "we are not talking about it on here" and cut him off and moved away from it.

The no detachment slot is a POS and needs to go away, its worst for the game not better, if CP was based on points or something else, sure, but not when there are Brigades for 12CP and you have armies like IG that can do it easily then armies like DE that are split up into 3 armies that are handicap already getting handicap AGAIN.

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Soulless Samurai
Wych
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 11:15

@amishprn86 wrote:
ONe of the main game testers for GW was on a podcast with FLG about the SOB beta codex, he was so happy that a good amount of their elites dont take up Detachment slots and both the FLG players sighed and said thats horrible, the tester didnt understand why...... Reeces was so fed with with him within 10sec of talking about it, he said "we are not talking about it on here" and cut him off and moved away from it.

The no detachment slot is a POS and needs to go away, its worst for the game not better, if CP was based on points or something else, sure, but not when there are Brigades for 12CP and you have armies like IG that can do it easily then armies like DE that are split up into 3 armies that are handicap already getting handicap AGAIN.

Nice to hear that GW is maintaining its proud tradition of hiring playtesters who don't understand any aspect of the game they're supposed to be testing.

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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 11:39

@TeenageAngst wrote:
If you could use court and beast units in slots the Brigade would be hands down the best way to run this army. Instead of saving 300 points in worthless units, you'd be saving about 500-600 in optimizing non-essentials.

I'm curious about your reasoning here. Double Battalion and a specialist detachment (probably Air Wing or Outrider) would only cost you 1 or 2 more HQs and 1 command point, but would also give you access to Obsessions, Ynnari HQs mixed with Covens or Mandrakes, and subfaction stratagems like Vect.

If you want to say that we shouldn't have to divide our army up just to get access to the basic crap that every other faction can take without thinking about it then I'd agree, but that's unfortunately not the state of the game.


Last edited by Burnage on Sat May 18 2019, 13:53; edited 1 time in total
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Serpent Fly
Hellion
Serpent Fly

Posts : 67
Join date : 2019-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 12:05

The fact that we need a different detachments if we want to pick more than one type of out 3 troops says alot. And that's before we get on to the fact that we only have 3 HQs who also need different detachments.

I like that the new Ynari index has added us 3 new HQs for our army, even if you didn't really want to use them as Ynari. However hey are all still foot slogging characters, (yes I know the yrcane can teleport but still) and the DE need more appealing HQs that aren't costed that high.
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Soulless Samurai
Wych
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 15:16

@Serpent Fly wrote:
The fact that we need a different detachments if we want to pick more than one type of out 3 troops says alot. And that's before we get on to the fact that we only have 3 HQs who also need different detachments.

I have to be honest, I'm struggling to even muster enthusiasm for listbuilding with Dark Eldar.

It's not just that the HQs have to be taken in different detachments (though that's certainly a pain), it's the fact that there's no interaction between our HQs or our different units.

If I play Craftworld Eldar, I can take a Farseer and he can buff *anything*. Some units may benefit a little more than others but I can literally put him in any army and he'll work just fine. Same goes for an Autarch. He's not quite as versatile as the Farseer but he can bring some decent weapons and his aura will buff anything in the codex. And with both of these I can also tailor them further. I can choose to have the Farseer on foot or on a jetbike. I can choose to have the Autarch on foot, on a jetbike, with wings or (via the index) with a warp jump pack.

But then I look at Dark Eldar. If I take an Archon I've got, what, 2 units he can buff. And one of those has no reason to leave its transport. If I use a Succubus it can technically buff Wyches, Reavers and Hellions, but the lack of mobility options means it has no way of keeping up with either of the latter. I can't use a Succubus to buff Wracks or Grotesques. I can't use a Haemonculus to buff Kabalites or Wyches. And nothing whatsoever can buff Mandrakes or Scourges.

I don't know, I guess I'm just fed up of having to take the same units over and over because we have few options to begin with and nothing is allowed to work together in any way.

Even Ynnari does basically bugger-all to fix this. Mandrakes and Coven are banned outright, so that's an entire subfaction gone. And whilst Ynnari allows the Archon and Succubus to affect both Kabal and Cult units, all it really does it make the Succubus redundant. Her aura is outright worse than that of the Archon and neither of them can keep pace with the fast DE units.

The reason I bring this up is because I've always played pure DE with no Eldar or Harlequin allies. Harlequins have never been my thing and I just never liked the 'feel' of Eldar. Something about their flavour just put me off. However, since I really like the flavour of the new Traits, Artefacts and Powers offered by Ynnari, I've actually been contemplating adding some Eldar to my lists. And when i looked at Eldar in that light, I don't know, it just seemed so much more open than DE. Even with the many restrictions imposed by playing Ynnari.


@Serpent Fly wrote:
I like that the new Ynari index has added us 3 new HQs for our army, even if you didn't really want to use them as Ynari. However hey are all still foot slogging characters, (yes I know the yrcane can teleport but still) and the DE need more appealing HQs that aren't costed that high.

Know what would have been nice? If one of the Ynnari relics had been something like Faolchu's Wing (the bearer gains a 12" move and Fly). Using an artefact to get a piece of wargear that most armies take for granted seems more than reasonable (especially given the costs involved to merely use Ynnari), but I guess throwing DE even the most meagre of bones is just too much to ask.

I agree about DE needing more HQs. Though I'll add that I'd like more customisable characters, rather than special characters.

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Gizamaluke
Sybarite
Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 18:44

I've asked my friends if I can play test some house ruled characters like an archon with wings/jetbike and discussed points costs with them, I think by making them slightly overcosted (more so than the archon) they're more willing to let me try
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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 20:29

@amishprn86 wrote:
ONe of the main game testers for GW was on a podcast with FLG about the SOB beta codex, he was so happy that a good amount of their elites dont take up Detachment slots and both the FLG players sighed and said thats horrible, the tester didnt understand why...... Reeces was so fed with with him within 10sec of talking about it, he said "we are not talking about it on here" and cut him off and moved away from it.

The no detachment slot is a POS and needs to go away, its worst for the game not better, if CP was based on points or something else, sure, but not when there are Brigades for 12CP and you have armies like IG that can do it easily then armies like DE that are split up into 3 armies that are handicap already getting handicap AGAIN.

I assume that the playtesters are just approaching it from the old-school mentality that taking up slots is a bad thing. Of course, that was from back when there was only one force org chart, and things not taking up elite or fast attack slots was a *good* thing.

The simple errata fix would just be to word all of these units to say that you *may choose* not to take up slots when taking them. That way, it works fine with the current state of the game, and will still work fine if, for some reason, you don't want the slots filled.
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Soulless Samurai
Wych
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 20:31

@krayd wrote:
I assume that the playtesters are just approaching it from the old-school mentality that taking up slots is a bad thing. Of course, that was from back when there was only one force org chart, and things not taking up elite or fast attack slots was a *good* thing.

But that's the point. It should be obvious that a unit not taking up a slot is now a huge detriment, rather than a benefit.

The fact that actual playtesters can't comprehend this really doesn't speak well of their knowledge and understanding of the game they're supposed to be testing.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 18 2019, 20:37

I like to think they think we're all taking so many fast attack and elite choices that they're doing us a favour by making beasts and court not take up slots so we can still take them!
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Soulless Samurai
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Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 19 2019, 00:00

@Gizamaluke wrote:
I like to think they think we're all taking so many fast attack and elite choices that they're doing us a favour by making beasts and court not take up slots so we can still take them!

But if that's the case, why did they feel the need to arbitrarily limit the number of Beasts and Court models we're allowed to take in any detachment? Neutral

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Serpent Fly
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Serpent Fly

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 19 2019, 08:27

So we don't take too many... so basically we are still restricted like a normal detachment but without the benefits of working towards more CP
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 19 2019, 17:37

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Gizamaluke wrote:
I like to think they think we're all taking so many fast attack and elite choices that they're doing us a favour by making beasts and court not take up slots so we can still take them!

But if that's the case, why did they feel the need to arbitrarily limit the number of Beasts and Court models we're allowed to take in any detachment? Neutral

B.c DE completely dominated the first few tournaments of 8th with 300 RWF's and GW decided to screw DE over before adding in the Ro3 when spam was clearly the problem and not DE, aka Stormraven/Razorback, Flyrant, Tau Commander nerfs, and the other before Ro3 that they never reverted b.c....

Another this, players also was taking 50 Court models (this was when their where characters)

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Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 20 2019, 13:43

@amishprn86 wrote:

Another this, players also was taking 50 Court models (this was when their where characters)

Guilty as charged.
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Faitherun
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Faitherun

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 20 2019, 22:47

I did realize that court models and best models only don't take up slots when and Archon or Beastmaster is in the detachment...

As such, I made the below which I think is not too bad


++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [109 PL, -1CP, 2000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Ynnari

Exalted of Ynnead [-1CP]

Fixed Combat Drug Selections

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 60pts]: Archite Glaive, Blast Pistol, Corag Hai's Locket, Grave Lotus (Combat Drug), Master of Death

Succubus [4 PL, 55pts]: Hypex (Combat Drug), Shardnet and impaler

The Yncarne [17 PL, 337pts]: Warden of Souls, Ynnari Warlord

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Wyches [4 PL, 97pts]: Painbringer (Combat Drug)
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 6x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Razorflails
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Razorflails
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

Wyches [4 PL, 97pts]: Adrenalight (Combat Drug)
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 6x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Razorflails
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Razorflails
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

+ Elites +

Medusae [2 PL, 21pts]

Medusae [2 PL, 21pts]

Medusae [2 PL, 21pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Razorwing Flocks [2 PL, 36pts]: 3x Razorwing flock

Razorwing Flocks [2 PL, 36pts]: 3x Razorwing flock

Razorwing Flocks [2 PL, 36pts]: 3x Razorwing flock

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [7 PL, 134pts]: Dark Lance, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shock Prow

Ravager [7 PL, 134pts]: Dark Lance, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shock Prow

Ravager [7 PL, 134pts]: Dark Lance, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shock Prow

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 135pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Disintegrator Cannons: 2x Disintegrator cannon

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 135pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Disintegrator Cannons: 2x Disintegrator cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Raider [5 PL, 84pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shock Prow

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [109 PL, -1CP, 2000pts] ++
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Gizamaluke
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Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 20 2019, 22:51

They also cant be taken without an Archon or Beast Master, page 114 of the codex under Match play rules
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Faitherun
Sybarite
Faitherun

Posts : 297
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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 21 2019, 03:07

Well damn - there goes that
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PostSubject: Re: Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius?   Ynarri Drukhari Brigades - trash or genius? - Page 3 I_icon_minitime

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