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benmet
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benmet

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PostSubject: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 08:31

Hi guy's and gals.

I'm putting my army together and as always with me its based on what I like and I love the look of reavers, so I have 24. Next in line model wise is the razor wing and scourges. These are the units that drew me into Drukhari initially.

As I'm making my list, I'm wondering if blasters on reavers are worth it. Given the reaver wants to be in combat, or at least mine will be. They won't be able to shoot more than a couple of times I'm guessing.

So would it be better to invest in a third Scourge unit instead?

Thoughts?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 12:07

I dont like anything on Reavers myself, as i use them for fast mobile objective stealers, a Blaster isnt going to do anything for me.

If you are able to magnetize them at least you'll have options, but i know many do like Heatlances for Character sniper (move fast, get close, shoot and charge if you need too).

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 13:39

Yeah I also don't like any guns on reavers, they are often advancing and I throw them up the field as quickly as possible to tie something up in melee, so it seems pretty pointless to throw an expensive gun on a unit that won't live long or will often be stuck tying something up in melee.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 14:51

My 12 man squad with toughness drugs and the overdose strat and LFR tanked shooting from 3 storm ravens and only lost 3 dudes in one game, a big squad is surprisingly tough. But yeah, I wouldn't bother with extra guns just the grav talons and eviscerating drive by for some mortal wound output then wrapping units up
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yellabelly
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yellabelly

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 15:27

Agree with all the above. I run mine strife for the extra attack, with Grav Talons but no gun upgrades. They hit fairly hard and the +1T drug keeps them in the fight for a good while. If you can get them into cover on the way up the board, Hunt From The Shadows gives them a 2+ save to make them even tougher.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 17:42

You've been using Hunt from the Shadows incorrectly, the stratagem specifically states it can only be used on infantry. Be nice if it worked on bikes.

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Gherma
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Gherma

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 20:15

I usually play them with blasters quite successfully. In ITC format they are great for scoring “recon”, helping with “old school” and getting some attention away from ravagers. I often don’t even send them in cc.

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yellabelly
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yellabelly

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 22:08

Damn, I've never actually played it on my reavers, and it's not a stratagem I use often. I'd been plotting to use it against my Tau opponent tomorrow night, which is why it was in my head 😆

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benmet
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benmet

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 22:40

Thanks for the replies guys.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 21:41

@Gherma wrote:
I usually play them with blasters quite successfully. In ITC format they are great for scoring “recon”, helping with “old school” and getting some attention away from ravagers. I often don’t even send them in cc.

I don't really see why in ITC they need blasters to perform that roll well, we have loads of fast units anyway that can perform recon very well. I also don't see how 2-3 blasters in a reaver unit is going to distract from a 3 dissie ravager.

I think the far better use of reavers is tying up important units in melee turn one. Against armies like guard, you can move up quickly and get something like a russ stuck in melee, and preventing a heavy gun like that from shooting is mighty useful.

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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2019, 16:12

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
@Gherma wrote:
I usually play them with blasters quite successfully. In ITC format they are great for scoring “recon”, helping with “old school” and getting some attention away from ravagers. I often don’t even send them in cc.

I don't really see why in ITC they need blasters to perform that roll well, we have loads of fast units anyway that can perform recon very well. I also don't see how 2-3 blasters in a reaver unit is going to distract from a 3 dissie ravager.

I think the far better use of reavers is tying up important units in melee turn one. Against armies like guard, you can move up quickly and get something like a russ stuck in melee, and preventing a heavy gun like that from shooting is mighty useful.  

In all honesty I believe that against any good list tying up is pretty much impossible or meaningless. Eldar or Repulsor? They just fly. Russ and Tank Commander? They are wrapped. Ultramarines? They can shot anyway. There are just a few shooting units in the current meta that it’s worthy to tie up.

Reavers are the fastest unit we have, and differently from Scourges they don’t die to stiff breeze and can guarantee recon for 2/3 turns if the opponent doesn’t focus fire on them... and while doing this, a couple of blaster shots can pop a tank a turn with a bit of luck.

Venoms, despite being fast, they cannot guarantee to be in the other half of the board if they don’t start on the edge of your deployment zone, that is something you may not want.

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benmet
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benmet

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeMon May 06 2019, 23:04

Yeah okay. Interesting and counter to the consensus, but I can see your point. I guess I’ll have to test them both ways.
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 00:32

I think the argument for blasters in ITC is that you can advance and fire them since they're assault weapons. Then you can Fire and Fade for Recon. Personally, I think Recon is a trap and should be avoided though, so I don't worry about that.
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benmet
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benmet

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 00:48

Is recon points for getting into opponents deployment zone? We don’t play itc.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 00:55

@benmet wrote:
Is recon points for getting into opponents deployment zone? We don’t play itc.

No, it's for getting a separate unit in all 4 table quarters. It's pretty terrible. To get max points, 16 things have to go right. 4 units able to move into table quarters, regardless of localized threats every turn, for 4 turns (if the game lasts that long).

It's by far the most resource intensive objective, and timed games often make it a low scorer anyway. It looks tempting because Dark Eldar are fast. But speed gives us freedom, Recon is a leash.
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 01:41

@sekac wrote:
@benmet wrote:
Is recon points for getting into opponents deployment zone? We don’t play itc.

No, it's for getting a separate unit in all 4 table quarters. It's pretty terrible. To get max points, 16 things have to go right. 4 units able to move into table quarters, regardless of localized threats every turn, for 4 turns (if the game lasts that long).

It's by far the most resource intensive objective, and timed games often make it a low scorer anyway. It looks tempting because Dark Eldar are fast. But speed gives us freedom, Recon is a leash.

This, right here. I can not tell you the number of times recon has bite me in the ass
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 02:31

@Faitherun wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@benmet wrote:
Is recon points for getting into opponents deployment zone? We don’t play itc.

No, it's for getting a separate unit in all 4 table quarters. It's pretty terrible. To get max points, 16 things have to go right. 4 units able to move into table quarters, regardless of localized threats every turn, for 4 turns (if the game lasts that long).

It's by far the most resource intensive objective, and timed games often make it a low scorer anyway. It looks tempting because Dark Eldar are fast. But speed gives us freedom, Recon is a leash.

This, right here. I can not tell you the number of times recon has bite me in the ass

I can.

Once.

Razz
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 03:11

Really? I run Recon every time. I have found that with the range of our guns, it is easy to get around for quadrants, but still be able to shoot. Behind Enemy Lines is the one that kills me.
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 06:27

@Myrvn wrote:
Really? I run Recon every time. I have found that with the range of our guns, it is easy to get around for quadrants, but still be able to shoot. Behind Enemy Lines is the one that kills me.

It's very easy to score it for a turn or 2. But, again, you're committing to exactly 4 units moving to locations you wouldn't necessarily otherwise choose, every turn, for 4 turns.

Once your opponent starts to kill units, or bog them down, you can't keep up. If the game only lasts 3 turns, you can't max it out. There's nothing that makes it more desirable than others.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 12:49

Um... i have never failed to get all 4 recon points. You only need to be particle in the quarter on your turn, thats stupidly easy, thats 2x3 feet you have to work with.

"Recon: Have a unit at least partially in each table quarter at the end of your player turn."

Yes it is 4 units, but with units like DJ's or Rangers that can hide, heck a succubus, something with character protect works even better. With PURE DE it might be slightly harder, but with Coven it shouldnt be.

Keep Ravagers/Archon/Kabals in back holding 2, rest of your army on the other side via Coven, Wyches, Venoms, etc...

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 14:06

Shrug. Agree to disagree. But I'm glad your opponents have always played fast enough to guarantee you a 4 turn game. That hasn't always been my experience, so I like to think of Recon as a max 3 point objective.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 15:36

Which secondaries do you usually take sekac? I can't think of many that would be maxed out by turn 3, and always open to getting some new ideas for secondary picks!

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 17:23

@yellabelly wrote:
Which secondaries do you usually take sekac? I can't think of many that would be maxed out by turn 3, and always open to getting some new ideas for secondary picks!

You always go for 4 turns so you can max out, i have never seen any tournament that i have been to where you cant get 4 turns in. I have herd of it but no names of the people involved.

If you do have a problem with it, then just anything that gets you kills

Mark for Death
Titan Slay
Gang Busters
The Butcher’s Bill
The Reaper

Etc...
There are i think 9? Kill point secondaries, just pick the ones you can do.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 21:02

Yeah I almost never have a problem getting recon, I don't make lists without assault elements in them for the most part so there's always something I want up in my opponent's table half, and leaving a ravager or something similar in the backfield is easy.


@Gherma wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:

I don't really see why in ITC they need blasters to perform that roll well, we have loads of fast units anyway that can perform recon very well. I also don't see how 2-3 blasters in a reaver unit is going to distract from a 3 dissie ravager.

I think the far better use of reavers is tying up important units in melee turn one. Against armies like guard, you can move up quickly and get something like a russ stuck in melee, and preventing a heavy gun like that from shooting is mighty useful.  

In all honesty I believe that against any good list tying up is pretty much impossible or meaningless. Eldar or Repulsor? They just fly. Russ and Tank Commander? They are wrapped. Ultramarines? They can shot anyway. There are just a few shooting units in the current meta that it’s worthy to tie up.

Reavers are the fastest unit we have, and differently from Scourges they don’t die to stiff breeze and can guarantee recon for 2/3 turns if the opponent doesn’t focus fire on them... and while doing this, a couple of blaster shots can pop a tank a turn with a bit of luck.

Venoms, despite being fast, they cannot guarantee to be in the other half of the board if they don’t start on the edge of your deployment zone, that is something you may not want.

In many cases, I agree your opponent will play very well and screen their army well turn one. Often they make a mistake though, or they may go first and move up and there's my opportunity to stop something from shooting, or I can always play a little more conservative and wait for a turn 2 opening. Regardless I just don't think dropping pts on blasters is worth it, they are expensive, reavers rarely live too long to get more than a shot or two off with them, and I have plenty of darklight shots already from other sources in my army.

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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Blasters on reavers   Blasters on reavers I_icon_minitimeTue May 07 2019, 21:39

As many other recon is really the easy peasy one for me. As many have pointed out, if your game ends up lasting just three turns, it’s unlikely to maximise any other secondary.

@Lord Asvaldir, you are right, they never last more than two turns, but two turns of in your face blasters are quite invaluable to me. Often the game is decided in those two turns.

Ultimately is very personal I believe. Their effectiveness really depends on how you use the rest of your army.

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