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amishprn86
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 14:07

Nvrm looking at Faqs, Q: Can a unit fire Overwatch at a Character if, when it
declares its charge at them, there are other visible enemy models
that are closer?
A: Yes.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 14:07

So Watch out charging some Nids now, they can get double tap in overwatch.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 14:10

If it count as in the shooting phase, does it mean that if I used a stratagem in the shooting phase, I can't use the same in the overwatch?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 14:12

It says you cant use stratagems in overwatch (unless it says you can)

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 30 2019, 18:45

@drdoom222222 wrote:
oh thank god, thanks for the clarification. So much to read.....Wink

Yup. The rule is just there to prevent an opponent from rushing a rhino full of berserkers into as much overwatch as possible, in hopes that it gets destroyed, so that the berserkers can immediately pop out, get another 3" close to you, and immediately charge.
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Karr4x
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu May 02 2019, 21:54

'A plan generations in the making', the Genestealer Cult equivalent of Agents of Vect is still 3PCs but was nerfed to be a one-time only stratagem. I think it's an appropriate change. The Genestealer Cult being somehow more cunning / manipulative than Vect's Kabal of the Black Heart was simply stupid.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 07:35

It was fluffed as they already were hiding and knew of your plans. Did they already change the fluff on it?

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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 09:53

I mean... How exactly is a genestealer cult going have to already known a dark eldar plan? Or tyranid? Or daemon? Or... well, near any faction? IMO it would make more sense for it to be along the lines of furiously planning for a single contingency, which would also tie in to the one use rule.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 10:24

@Sarcron wrote:
I mean... How exactly is a genestealer cult going have to already known a dark eldar plan? Or tyranid? Or daemon? Or... well, near any faction? IMO it would make more sense for it to be along the lines of furiously planning for a single contingency, which would also tie in to the one use rule.

Depending on if they change the fluff. GSC are breed within where they are, they dont leave that world. They are working for 100's of years to infest for a full scale invasion, they infiltrate even the highest of positions, military, intelligence, etc... With full underground networks and tunnels with spies everywhere.

WHen you fight them its either b.c they have been spotted or they are hatching their plans.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 10:33

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
I mean... How exactly is a genestealer cult going have to already known a dark eldar plan? Or tyranid? Or daemon? Or... well, near any faction? IMO it would make more sense for it to be along the lines of furiously planning for a single contingency, which would also tie in to the one use rule.

Depending on if they change the fluff. GSC are breed within where they are, they dont leave that world. They are working for 100's of years to infest for a full scale invasion, they infiltrate even the highest of positions, military, intelligence, etc... With full underground networks and tunnels with spies everywhere.

WHen you fight them its either b.c they have been spotted or they are hatching their plans.

But that's the point - surely their plans are going to involve the world they're actually infiltrating.

If the world is suddenly invaded by DE, Daemons etc. out of nowhere then how exactly would they have prepared for that?

I can understand them being able to predict some factions - especially IG and SMs, as they'd probably already be controlling some of the former and would likely be aware that the latter might well be sent to eradicate them. But there are also many factions that could arrive with no warning. DE can emerge from a webway to launch a raid, Necrons could teleport in, Daemons could appear out of the warp etc.

It's a problem of scale, really. A genestealer cult anticipating the reaction of the world in which its infiltrated itself is reasonable. A genestealer cult successfully anticipating the reaction of the entire galaxy is just ludicrous.

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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 10:53

I understand where you're coming from amishprn86, but still, it's the disconnect between the game and the fluff that will always be there. Genestealer cults shouldn't even know that daemons exist unless the Patriarch is feeding them something. It's the same problem with the callidus assassin and it's infiltration of the enemy. I don't think it can really disrupt the plans of a tyranid hive fleet by messing with orders.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 11:28

Right, just how our bullets stops 1/2 down the table, you cant fully go into reality with the game, there is a fluff with a purpose, that should be good enough.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 18:43

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
I mean... How exactly is a genestealer cult going have to already known a dark eldar plan? Or tyranid? Or daemon? Or... well, near any faction? IMO it would make more sense for it to be along the lines of furiously planning for a single contingency, which would also tie in to the one use rule.

Depending on if they change the fluff. GSC are breed within where they are, they dont leave that world. They are working for 100's of years to infest for a full scale invasion, they infiltrate even the highest of positions, military, intelligence, etc... With full underground networks and tunnels with spies everywhere.

WHen you fight them its either b.c they have been spotted or they are hatching their plans.

But that's the point - surely their plans are going to involve the world they're actually infiltrating.

If the world is suddenly invaded by DE, Daemons etc. out of nowhere then how exactly would they have prepared for that?

I can understand them being able to predict some factions - especially IG and SMs, as they'd probably already be controlling some of the former and would likely be aware that the latter might well be sent to eradicate them. But there are also many factions that could arrive with no warning. DE can emerge from a webway to launch a raid, Necrons could teleport in, Daemons could appear out of the warp etc.

It's a problem of scale, really. A genestealer cult anticipating the reaction of the world in which its infiltrated itself is reasonable. A genestealer cult successfully anticipating the reaction of the entire galaxy is just ludicrous.

You're assuming that the other faction just showed up out of the blue. If this stratagem is in play, then its likely that their invasion had been instigated by the Genestealers, to weaken the world's defenses, crush defenders, give them a smokescreen for their movements, etc.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 19:08

@Jimsolo wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
I mean... How exactly is a genestealer cult going have to already known a dark eldar plan? Or tyranid? Or daemon? Or... well, near any faction? IMO it would make more sense for it to be along the lines of furiously planning for a single contingency, which would also tie in to the one use rule.

Depending on if they change the fluff. GSC are breed within where they are, they dont leave that world. They are working for 100's of years to infest for a full scale invasion, they infiltrate even the highest of positions, military, intelligence, etc... With full underground networks and tunnels with spies everywhere.

WHen you fight them its either b.c they have been spotted or they are hatching their plans.

But that's the point - surely their plans are going to involve the world they're actually infiltrating.

If the world is suddenly invaded by DE, Daemons etc. out of nowhere then how exactly would they have prepared for that?

I can understand them being able to predict some factions - especially IG and SMs, as they'd probably already be controlling some of the former and would likely be aware that the latter might well be sent to eradicate them. But there are also many factions that could arrive with no warning. DE can emerge from a webway to launch a raid, Necrons could teleport in, Daemons could appear out of the warp etc.

It's a problem of scale, really. A genestealer cult anticipating the reaction of the world in which its infiltrated itself is reasonable. A genestealer cult successfully anticipating the reaction of the entire galaxy is just ludicrous.

You're assuming that the other faction just showed up out of the blue. If this stratagem is in play, then its likely that their invasion had been instigated by the Genestealers, to weaken the world's defenses, crush defenders, give them a smokescreen for their movements, etc.

So why are they fighting the genestealer cult in the first place?

Surely the cult would be lying low whilst the uninfected defenders are slaughtered?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 19:17

Because the invading faction doesn't realize its a GSC until combat's engaged?

(There's at least 2 BL novels that are pretty much this exact scenario.)
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 22:19

i think we shouldnt drag the fluff into discussions about stratagems
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 03 2019, 22:42

Eh, when two identical stratagems are FAQed in different ways, and 'fluff' is a proposed reason for the change, it seems relevant.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 05 2019, 12:55

we all know its to sell the new shiny toys
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 05 2019, 18:58

@AzraeI wrote:
we all know its to sell the new shiny toys
New shiny toys? Did I miss our own shiny toys?
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed May 08 2019, 04:32

I don't think the fluff has been relevant to GW's decision making processes since at least 5th edition.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: New big faq changes   New big faq changes - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed May 08 2019, 19:15

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I don't think the fluff has been relevant to GW's decision making processes since at least 5th edition.

EXCUSE ME???! dont you remember the very fluffy skyhammer annihilation force???
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