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 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often

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TSkouboe
Slave
TSkouboe

Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-08-07
Location : Randers

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 10:08

Lately I've been losing a lot. There are two possible reasons: I'm not a skilled player, or my lists aren't very good. It's probably a mix, and I could use some advice on the latter.

My last four games have been against chaos daemons (+ a bit of thousand sons) and orks:
Four daemon princes with T6 w. 4+ invul, and lots of horrors with T3 and 4+ invul.
Three ork fliers with T6, and huge blobs of boyz supported by 5+ invul fields, weirdboyz, and lootas or tankbustas.

I struggle with clearing the screens fast enough, and with dealing with T6 units. I can kill them, but it takes inefficiently long.

I change my list around every time.
My last list was 2000 pts.:

- - - - - - - -

KABAL OF THE BLACK HEART BATALLION:
Archon w. huskblade and splinter pistol (warlord, labyrinthine cunning and writ of the living muse)
Archon w. huskblade and splinter pistol

2x 5 kabalite warriors w. blaster and PGL
5 kabalite warriors

2x venom
Raider w. dissie

2x ravager w. dissies

Razorwing jetfighter w. dissie

PROPHETS OF FLESH VANGUARD
Haemonculus w. liquifier gun (Vexator mask, diabolical soothsayer)

3 grotesque
2x 5 mandrakes

3 Talos w. chain-flails and haywire blasters

CULT OF THE RED GRIEF OUTRIDER
Succubus w. the blood glaive (hyper-swift reflexes, adrenalight (+1A))

2x scourges w. shredders

9 reavers w. 3 blaster, 3 grav-talon, and agonizer (painbringer (+1T))

- - - - - - - -

My warlord stays back with the ravagers to thin the orks.
Scourge and mandrakes deep strike and want to hit his back field to thin out lootas similar.
Kabalites in venoms zoom around for either objectives or screening. The last squad finds a safe place and shoots out.
Talos take the mid field along with the raider, which has the remaining HQ's and the grotesques.
Reavers either hunt characters or annoy artillery.

Admittedly, this list tries new things out. I haven't used mandrakes, reavers or a succubus before. Maybe I'm trying too much new.
Generally, I think the list is too divided.

Do you have any advice?
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Silverglade
Sybarite
Silverglade

Posts : 441
Join date : 2012-12-30

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 16:18

I think you're trying to do too much at once.

I would drop the reavers and succubus in favour of a third ravager and a second RWJF with dissies.

The way you have the reavers kitted out they come in at 235 points, and they'll never pay that back for you, and the succubus likely isn't able to do that much on her own.

I personally would then drop one of the venoms to take Urien Rakarth. He buffs up those Talos something fierce, and gives you another Haemonculous HQ so that your grots can break off in a different direction.
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

Posts : 1007
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 16:55

They seems to have a lot of invulnerable saves. Disintegrators struggle against those. You need more poison.
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TSkouboe
Slave
TSkouboe

Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-08-07
Location : Randers

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2019, 09:46

Thank you for the ideas.
I think you're right that I need to ditch the cult - even if I enjoy the reavers.

I've played three Ravagers before, and I found them rather inefficient against my usual opponents.
If I struggle dealing with daemon princes, screens, and tough fliers, are more disintegrators a good answer?
I see two other options:
1. More melee - more Talos
2. Focus on shooting - Craftworld psyker support

Does that sound reasonable?
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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

Posts : 757
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2019, 14:31

@TSkouboe wrote:

I think you're right that I need to ditch the cult -
This will improve your list immediately. Reavers are fun, but they are no where near points efficient.
Quote :



If I struggle dealing with daemon princes, screens, and tough fliers, are more disintegrators a good answer?
Does that sound reasonable?
No.
Venoms. Lots of venoms.
For the fliers, Talos eat them up pretty quick in HTH. Arcons with blasters help as well.

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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 3506
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2019, 19:58

Agree with others, you are spreading yourself out to thin and not focusing on what you need each unit for. 3 Grots dont support anything, you are wasting the Haemonculus abilities on so little units and therefore wasting points.

Tighten up your list a little and you'll do much better.

I would pick to either remove the Coven or the Wyches, keep one of them (Whichever one you like better) and build that one up a bit more.

If you do keep the Wyches, make reavers super cheap, no upgrades. Make them fast moving attacking units. They already have S4 -1AP, theya re meant to go after back shooty units or objective clearing (like 10 gants, guardsmen, 5 SM's, etc..)

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TSkouboe
Slave
TSkouboe

Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-08-07
Location : Randers

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2019, 15:27

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions!
They're very helpful.
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Rodi Sikni
Kabalite Warrior
Rodi Sikni

Posts : 100
Join date : 2017-12-09

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 18 2019, 18:35

I think that the most necessary thing to try to give you a proper advice is know what system do you play: ITC, ETC, or GW missions. The meta changes a lot and the utility of the units too.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 3506
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19 2019, 05:23

@Rodi Sikni wrote:
I think that the most necessary thing to try to give you a proper advice is know what  system do you play: ITC, ETC, or GW missions. The meta changes a lot and the utility of the units too.

I assume its normal GW missions unless otherwise stated

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often   2000 pts. pure DE - I lose too often I_icon_minitime

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