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RolandDarkfire
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PostSubject: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 04:12

Hey everyone. I was just wondering what the consensus was on using Harlequins with Drukhari (not as Ynnari). I love both sets of lore and models, just wondered if its a viable mix. Thanks!
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Burnage
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 06:22

Haywire Skyweavers are great, basically a straight upgrade over Haywire Scourges. Death Jesters and Solitaires are good. Everything else is pretty much okay at best.

They definitely work as allies, they mostly feel like elite versions of standard Dark Eldar units (which is exactly what they used to be).
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 15 2019, 15:19

I loved my harlequin allies (Midnight Sorrow) until they nerfed the flip belts on them to not work outside the Movement phase. I ran around 1000pts of them alongside my Kabal army, batallion of;

Troupe Master
Shadowseer
Shadowseer

3×5 Troupe

Solitaire

6 Skyweavers
3 Starweavers

Back when they could ninja their way through enemy lines to consolidate onto tougher units they were really fun and technical to use, but nowadays they act very much like wyches but more expensive
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 16 2019, 01:29

I take quins a lot, for non Ynnari i would do this (and i do a lot)

Vanguard - Dreaming shadow
Shadowseer
DJ
DJ
Solitaire - Cegorachs Rose
Skyweavers x6, x6 HWC/Glaives

Another option is Midnight Sorrow, this is more of a melee buff where Dreaming shadow is shooting buffs

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeWed May 08 2019, 04:30

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Usually I'd rather have the equivalent points in Wyches than Troupes, and now that Doom has been nerfed the bikes lost most of their teeth.

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newtonEmma
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeMon May 20 2019, 16:15

Thumbs up lol!
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 19:16

I LOVE the idea of it. Dark eldar armies run on redundant threats. Think about that....what redundant threats can you think of? Fast bike army? Check! Silken knife, starmist rainment, vex mask? Check! Grenades on wyches AND troupes for ahem...cough...orcs, with suit of hidden knives, VOT, FOD? That's just evil. Check!

want to go haywire? Check!

Character hunting? Death Jester, Example Made, Dark Creed esoteric Kill (on raider or ahem....Tantalus, with a PGL firing Torment Grenade...AND Soul Seeker? Check!

CAUTION: Don't go crazy on upgrades. Troupes with 5X Caress and 5X fusion pistols are.....RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE! Upgrade 2 of every 5 models to start....just for cost control. The enemy should feel REALLY BAD about killing 4 out of 5 models, because that 5th one is a....wyche!



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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 23:50

@amishprn86 wrote:
I take quins a lot, for non Ynnari i would do this (and i do a lot)

Vanguard - Dreaming shadow
Shadowseer
DJ
DJ
Solitaire - Cegorachs Rose
Skyweavers x6, x6 HWC/Glaives

Another option is Midnight Sorrow, this is more of a melee buff where Dreaming shadow is shooting buffs

How useful do you find the Death Jesters?

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 08:59

I personally find them to just be a tax for my Solitaire, dont think mine have ever done much but I've never tried going the full hog with them and going dreaming shadow + curtain fall.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 16:51

I like 3 units of 2 bikes and Yvraine for a small Ynnari Outrider detachment. If you've got the points, I like the vanguard with 6 bikes clumped up, but harlequin stratagems and characters don't support minimum bike squads very well. Yvraine, on the other hand, offers them a lot of support. She can resurrect bikes, and Unbind Souls on an enemy unit makes those glaives sing.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 17:31

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
I take quins a lot, for non Ynnari i would do this (and i do a lot)

Vanguard - Dreaming shadow
Shadowseer
DJ
DJ
Solitaire - Cegorachs Rose
Skyweavers x6, x6 HWC/Glaives

Another option is Midnight Sorrow, this is more of a melee buff where Dreaming shadow is shooting buffs

How useful do you find the Death Jesters?

Amazing, 1 45pts to hold an objective compare to a 100pt troop unit or 99pt vehicle. With character protection, unless they have snipers its the best objective holder for Quins. On top of that if you are anywhere within 24" of any thing that is T3 5+/ or T3 6+ you'll get a few D3 MW's on a couple units, thats more than what Rangers will do. ALso b.c of Flip belts and 8"+D6 they can easily get where they need too.

Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 18:42

@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

This stratagem always seems like it has a lot of potential to me, but I've never used it. Did you use it for a late game objective grab or set up an important charge? Please share!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2019, 15:37

@sekac wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

This stratagem always seems like it has a lot of potential to me, but I've never used it. Did you use it for a late game objective grab or set up an important charge? Please share!

For me in ITC it wins me games (Recon) and i take Behind enemy lines as well. I cant always do it turn 1, but when i can that 2 VP's right there.

For GW missions i use it mid/late game mostly Maelstrom missions to take objectives.

But the one that won me the tournament match was early, there was 2 key points up on terrain, i put a DJ/Shadowseer on one side and a Solitaire on the other in spots that would waste his time and points to get to, thats the key to using it on their turn, make it a complete waste to get to them. Then the DJ/SS sat there picking off 3-4 damage for 2 turns giving me 2 VP's and the Solitaire on my turn 1 sniped out a character, second CC into a squad and killed them too.

He was the only one that didnt pick to kill my characters, and he picked to kill my bikes (they can give max points to 1 secondary) and he picked engineer (b.c he had units that dont need to move), i deploy away from the engineers on purpose so he felt they are safe, Heroes pathway the solitaire to them and thats who he killed (So if he moved them they wouldnt get the point).

The Heroes path is more about the options, the timing of when to use them. Works great and i use it at least 1/3 of the games i play.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2019, 17:35

@amishprn86 wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

This stratagem always seems like it has a lot of potential to me, but I've never used it. Did you use it for a late game objective grab or set up an important charge? Please share!

For me in ITC it wins me games (Recon) and i take Behind enemy lines as well. I cant always do it turn 1, but when i can that 2 VP's right there.

For GW missions i use it mid/late game mostly Maelstrom missions to take objectives.

But the one that won me the tournament match was early, there was 2 key points up on terrain, i put a DJ/Shadowseer on one side and a Solitaire on the other in spots that would waste his time and points to get to, thats the key to using it on their turn, make it a complete waste to get to them. Then the DJ/SS sat there picking off 3-4 damage for 2 turns giving me 2 VP's and the Solitaire on my turn 1 sniped out a character, second CC into a squad and killed them too.

He was the only one that didnt pick to kill my characters, and he picked to kill my bikes (they can give max points to 1 secondary) and he picked engineer (b.c he had units that dont need to move), i deploy away from the engineers on purpose so he felt they are safe, Heroes pathway the solitaire to them and thats who he killed (So if he moved them they wouldnt get the point).

The Heroes path is more about the options, the timing of when to use them. Works great and i use it at least 1/3 of the games i play.

How do you keep all three characters near each other in the mid-late game? That always feels like the biggest stumbling block for Heroes' Path to me.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2019, 19:35

@amishprn86 wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

This stratagem always seems like it has a lot of potential to me, but I've never used it. Did you use it for a late game objective grab or set up an important charge? Please share!

For me in ITC it wins me games (Recon) and i take Behind enemy lines as well. I cant always do it turn 1, but when i can that 2 VP's right there.

For GW missions i use it mid/late game mostly Maelstrom missions to take objectives.

But the one that won me the tournament match was early, there was 2 key points up on terrain, i put a DJ/Shadowseer on one side and a Solitaire on the other in spots that would waste his time and points to get to, thats the key to using it on their turn, make it a complete waste to get to them. Then the DJ/SS sat there picking off 3-4 damage for 2 turns giving me 2 VP's and the Solitaire on my turn 1 sniped out a character, second CC into a squad and killed them too.

He was the only one that didnt pick to kill my characters, and he picked to kill my bikes (they can give max points to 1 secondary) and he picked engineer (b.c he had units that dont need to move), i deploy away from the engineers on purpose so he felt they are safe, Heroes pathway the solitaire to them and thats who he killed (So if he moved them they wouldnt get the point).

The Heroes path is more about the options, the timing of when to use them. Works great and i use it at least 1/3 of the games i play.

Cool, thanks for sharing!
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 06 2019, 23:04

@amishprn86 wrote:

Amazing, 1 45pts to hold an objective compare to a 100pt troop unit or 99pt vehicle. With character protection, unless they have snipers its the best objective holder for Quins. On top of that if you are anywhere within 24" of any thing that is T3 5+/ or T3 6+ you'll get a few D3 MW's on a couple units, thats more than what Rangers will do. ALso b.c of Flip belts and 8"+D6 they can easily get where they need too.

Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

Interesting.

It's silly but whenever I consider Death Jesters their use as objective holders always slips my mind.

That said, if I run them at all it will have to be in a Ynnari detachment... so no Solitaire. Sad

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 02:00

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

This stratagem always seems like it has a lot of potential to me, but I've never used it. Did you use it for a late game objective grab or set up an important charge? Please share!

For me in ITC it wins me games (Recon) and i take Behind enemy lines as well. I cant always do it turn 1, but when i can that 2 VP's right there.

For GW missions i use it mid/late game mostly Maelstrom missions to take objectives.

But the one that won me the tournament match was early, there was 2 key points up on terrain, i put a DJ/Shadowseer on one side and a Solitaire on the other in spots that would waste his time and points to get to, thats the key to using it on their turn, make it a complete waste to get to them. Then the DJ/SS sat there picking off 3-4 damage for 2 turns giving me 2 VP's and the Solitaire on my turn 1 sniped out a character, second CC into a squad and killed them too.

He was the only one that didnt pick to kill my characters, and he picked to kill my bikes (they can give max points to 1 secondary) and he picked engineer (b.c he had units that dont need to move), i deploy away from the engineers on purpose so he felt they are safe, Heroes pathway the solitaire to them and thats who he killed (So if he moved them they wouldnt get the point).

The Heroes path is more about the options, the timing of when to use them. Works great and i use it at least 1/3 of the games i play.

How do you keep all three characters near each other in the mid-late game? That always feels like the biggest stumbling block for Heroes' Path to me.

The DJ is normally near middle and so is the Shadowseer, if i dont have a clear target for the solitaire i'll wait a turn to see what i want to do, he sometimes wont do something till turn 3, but thats b.c some opponents plays crazy tank lists, like 3 repulsor and the custodes tank, they have fly so they can fallback and shoot, no reason to charge it.

I dont normally do mid game, its either turn 1 or 2, but... 3 repulsor and 3 custode tanks is not fun to play against at all as harlequins.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 02:02

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

Amazing, 1 45pts to hold an objective compare to a 100pt troop unit or 99pt vehicle. With character protection, unless they have snipers its the best objective holder for Quins. On top of that if you are anywhere within 24" of any thing that is T3 5+/ or T3 6+ you'll get a few D3 MW's on a couple units, thats more than what Rangers will do. ALso b.c of Flip belts and 8"+D6 they can easily get where they need too.

Finally it gives you the option of Heroes Path (Sadowseer, DJ, Solitaire) you can use it in your heroes phase too. I don't use it that often but having the ability is good, it has won me a game before (tournament game).

Interesting.

It's silly but whenever I consider Death Jesters their use as objective holders always slips my mind.

That said, if I run them at all it will have to be in a Ynnari detachment... so no Solitaire. Sad

Yeah... and the fluff fits for them being Ynnari, so idk why they are not, it actually made me very disappointed.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 13:48

@amishprn86 wrote:

Yeah... and the fluff fits for them being Ynnari, so idk why they are not, it actually made me very disappointed.

Same. I'm almost impressed by the fact that Ynnari is a melee faction comprised of 3 separate factions and yet manages to exclude virtually all the best melee units from those factions. Neutral

Also, not really related but it bugs me that Death Jesters have more attacks than Shadowseers but no actual melee weapons. Even a gun blade with AP-1 would have been something.

Anyway, I can see one benefit for a Ynnari Death Jester - Walker of Many Paths. A free reroll to hit or wound each turn combined with 5+ CP regeneration seems pretty good for a backfield sniper unit. Doesn't even have to be your main Warlord.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 07 2019, 23:11

Yeah i like that extra WL trait stratagem.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 09 2019, 15:00

Out of interest, to those of you using Harlequin allies, which faction do you take your Warlord from?

Do you have an Archon, Succubus or Haemonculus as your Warlord or do you have a Shadowseer, Troupe Master or Death Jester?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 10 2019, 05:03

I take Archon as warlord b.c its better than Quins WL IMO. Now if Ynnari was just a bit better i would do a Ynnari warlord as allies.

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequin Allies?   Harlequin Allies? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 11 2019, 11:42

@amishprn86 wrote:
I take Archon as warlord b.c its better than Quins WL IMO. Now if Ynnari was just a bit better i would do a Ynnari warlord as allies.

That's where I'm at as well (except that I probably will take Ynnari-Harlequin allies).

I'm thinking that a Ynnari Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth could be amusing. 1 to wound, 4++, 5+++ and regains 1 wound each turn (more if he has Word of the Phoenix).

For a laugh, give him Mirrorgaze as well. Now enemies have -1 to hit against him (in addition to his native -1 to wound). Not sure if it's necessarily the best option but it could be amusing if you want a tanky (by Eldar standards) HQ.


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