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 How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!

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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

Posts : 755
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

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PostSubject: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 16:57

Ok, in the transport rules thread, it was shown that :
"When they do, any restricitons or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols_ if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on."

ANY restrictions or modifiers.

ANY

So what effects the transport effects the squad inside.  Well this certainly opens up a can of possibilities! Lets just say....

Archon outside of a Venom. 5 poison tongue warriors inside with splinter rifles. Archon effects the transport (and therefore the crew inside) to re-roll 1's to hit. Poison tongue trait lets them reroll 1's to wound as well.

Archon outside a Flayed Skull Raider w/lance with 10 crew- 1 blaster 1 dark lance.  Use strat to give raider +1 to hit unit with fly ability. (this passes on to crew). Shoot at some shining spears or jumppack marines.  Hit on 2+  rerolling ALL 1's (from trait or archon, depending on your weapon or choice) with NO cover saves allowed.  Hit planes with 2 dark lances and a blaster on 3+ rerolling 1's.

Now for the tricky things...
16 hellions inside a flayed skull tantalus. tantalus is MODIFIED by the trait to add 3" to movement. hellions are allowed to deploy 3", then move. Can they now deploy 6" and move? Since they are coming from a tantalus, can they deploy 3" and move an extra three in movement? Can they do both?  
Here is the wording:
Add 3" to the Move characteristic of all models with this obsession
that can FLY. (Hellions do not have the obsession, but they have the fly rule and are embarked on an open topped transport, giving them this modification.)  In addition, enemy units do not receive the benefit to their saving throws for being in cover
against attacks made by models with this obsession that can FLY, or that
are embarked upon a TRANSPORT that can FLY. So the hellions shots ignore cover saves.

I can see arguments in regards to "deploying within 3" of the transport is not movement" and then "they are no longer on the transport so do not benefit from the extra 3".

But it seems pretty iron clad that the first few examples given would be true.
Archon's auras do not benefit the people inside a transport, but it effects the transport, which then passes it on to the crew.
this would also bypass Archon's not benefitting, say.. MANDRAKES.
10 mandrakes in a raider within 6" of an archon, and wham! rerolling 1's!

Any other combos I may have missed?

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Burnage
Wych
Burnage

Posts : 798
Join date : 2017-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 17:27

I don't think this has been missed so much as the rules are horrendously written. Re-rolls aren't modifiers - "modifiers" very specifically refers to only + or - to hit or wound.

So the Flayed Skull strat affects the occupants of a transport, but the Archon's aura doesn't.
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Gizamaluke
Kabalite Warrior
Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 18:52

Yeah rerolls are not modifiers and even if they're were they confer their effects to <Kabal/Cult/Coven> respectively so you couldn't mix Kabals and Hellions in a tantalus and pass on the effects. Similarly you couldn't fill it with mandrake, use the Flayed skull +1 to hit vs flyers strat and confer that either as they dont have a <Kabal> tag and it affects <Flayed Skull> units.
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amishprn86
Dracon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 19:00

Auras are already rules int he core rules to not work on anything inside transports

Modifiers always has worked and you always have used them, example - if you move and have a heavy weapon you are -1 to hit, If you have a special rules (PFP chart) you still get that rule as well.

Another example, Tyranids, if they are inside a transport, they dont get Synapse as its an aura and are now always effected by instinctive behavior (-1 to hit if not shooting closest enemy).

Also Flawed Skull doesnt work like that, it literally says "Units with this obsession" As soon as the Hellions leave the transport they are no longer tided to it, Disembark is not a movement used by the move characteristic, its a separate thing. But the Hellions would get the ignore cover and re-rolls 1's while on the Tantalus.

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Sarcron
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 19:55

I don't think the hellions would be getting the ignores cover, the obsession rule is;

"In addition, enemy units do not receive the benefit to their saving throws for being in cover
against attacks made by models with this obsession that can fly, or that
are embarked upon a transport that can fly"

My reading of this is that it's saying models with this obsession that can fly, or models with this obsession that are embarked on a transport that can fly. It would also go along with the FAQ that flayed skull kabs had to be on a flayed skull transport to get the bonus.

On the other hand, your passengers do still get your modifiers. E.g. the flayed skull stratagem used on a raider would also work on the people inside.

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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2019, 20:49

@Sarcron wrote:
On the other hand, your passengers do still get your modifiers. E.g. the flayed skull stratagem used on a raider would also work on the people inside.

There's actually some pretty nifty, albeit situational, utility here.

I'd say the best option is using blaster toting trueborn if that's something you're in to. If you don't run index stuff, soaring spite harlequins with fusion pistols can actually use it really well.

Say there's an alaitoc crimson hunter exarch sniping away from afar. If you've got Soaring spite in a FS raider or venom, you can use whatever combination of move/advance/enhanced aethersails/fire and fade to get right up on it. Pop the stratagem to hit it on 2+ with your pistols. They'll be pretty much forced to use lightning fast reactions just to get you back to a 3+. Even then, those pistols should chew it up pretty good.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2019, 21:41

@sekac wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
On the other hand, your passengers do still get your modifiers. E.g. the flayed skull stratagem used on a raider would also work on the people inside.

There's actually some pretty nifty, albeit situational, utility here.

I'd say the best option is using blaster toting trueborn if that's something you're in to. If you don't run index stuff, soaring spite harlequins with fusion pistols can actually use it really well.

Say there's an alaitoc crimson hunter exarch sniping away from afar. If you've got Soaring spite in a FS raider or venom, you can use whatever combination of move/advance/enhanced aethersails/fire and fade to get right up on it. Pop the stratagem to hit it on 2+ with your pistols. They'll be pretty much forced to use lightning fast reactions just to get you back to a 3+. Even then, those pistols should chew it up pretty good.

You can't put Harlequins or Craftworlders in Dark Eldar transports. Dark Reaper Raiders would be a huge thing if that wasn't the case.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11 2019, 22:25

@Burnage wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
On the other hand, your passengers do still get your modifiers. E.g. the flayed skull stratagem used on a raider would also work on the people inside.

There's actually some pretty nifty, albeit situational, utility here.

I'd say the best option is using blaster toting trueborn if that's something you're in to. If you don't run index stuff, soaring spite harlequins with fusion pistols can actually use it really well.

Say there's an alaitoc crimson hunter exarch sniping away from afar. If you've got Soaring spite in a FS raider or venom, you can use whatever combination of move/advance/enhanced aethersails/fire and fade to get right up on it. Pop the stratagem to hit it on 2+ with your pistols. They'll be pretty much forced to use lightning fast reactions just to get you back to a 3+. Even then, those pistols should chew it up pretty good.

You can't put Harlequins or Craftworlders in Dark Eldar transports. Dark Reaper Raiders would be a huge thing if that wasn't the case.

Derp. I'm gonna go take a nap...
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PostSubject: Re: How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound!   How did we miss this? transport shenanigins inbound! I_icon_minitime

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