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 Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force

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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

Posts : 165
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2019, 04:26

I think we, Drukhari, understand the Raiding Force to be a neat concept but entirely obsolete. So, in spite of that,  I decided I'd take a version that isn't trash, hopefully. It may not be good, but it's a concept! The alliance of agony triple battalion:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [58 PL, 1108pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 86pts]: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Warlord (Archon)

Archon [4 PL, 89pts]: Blaster, Venom Blade

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: Splinter Cannon
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 440pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Prophets of Flesh

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 76pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Splinter Pistol

Haemonculus [5 PL, 76pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Splinter Pistol

+ Troops +

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [24 PL, 452pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Cursed Blade

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 60pts]: Archite Glaive, Blast Pistol

Succubus [4 PL, 60pts]: Archite Glaive, Blast Pistol

+ Troops +

Wyches [2 PL, 51pts]
. Hekatrix: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword, Splinter pistol
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

Wyches [2 PL, 48pts]
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

Wyches [2 PL, 49pts]
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Like I said, I drew this up as a concept but ended up really excited to play it. Got a local tourney at the end of the month that I think I'll take it to.

The plan is essentially to use a pile of CPs (18-20) to annoy people. Fire and Fade/Lightning fast reactions throughout. Zurg rush a wave of wracks to tempt people into shooting them up. Reserve a haemonculus with WWP and wait to cornucopia a squad of wracks near an objective.

I plan on placing objectives on the board edge side of nice terrain pieces to diminish the value of terrain. You can set there but you can't set and score.

This isn't the usual thing I run. I haven't taken a list without mandrakes since 5th ed, when they were absolute trash. I also feel completely naked without grotesques. Critiques absolutely welcome!
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yellabelly
Sybarite
yellabelly

Posts : 297
Join date : 2017-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2019, 13:51

I like it! My critique would be that it is all minimum sized squads, so the CP investment into each squad is of limited benefit. I run Wyches all the time, and have found 10 have more than twice the punch of 5, especially as you can get two pairs of hydra gauntlets in alongside the shardnet.
It's a list that will need playing and see how it works, then adjust it from there. I'd be keen to hear how you get on as I'd like to find a way to run all 3 factions together too.

_________________
Do you fight for the Dark Gods? The Drukhari gave birth to one of them. By partying.
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TheBaconPope
Wych
TheBaconPope

Posts : 684
Join date : 2017-03-10

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2019, 14:14

I'd swap the squad sizes of the Wracks and Wyches. As said above, it'll give you more bang for your buck. I'd also recommend trying to fit a blob of Grotesques in there. While your list isn't flimsy by any means, having some serious durability on the field that can aggressively take and hold backfield objectives is pretty invaluable.

_________________
"Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

Posts : 165
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 08 2019, 17:40

@TheBaconPope wrote:
I'd swap the squad sizes of the Wracks and Wyches. As said above, it'll give you more bang for your buck. I'd also recommend trying to fit a blob of Grotesques in there. While your list isn't flimsy by any means, having some serious durability on the field that can aggressively take and hold backfield objectives is pretty invaluable.

Thanks for the feedback! The issue with wracks vs wyches comes down to transportation. The warriors will go in venoms, 2 squads of wyches in one raider, 5 wyches and a few HQs in the other raider. All 30 wracks are foot-slogging. I can absolutely switch it, but I don't really like wyches on foot, they're just too fragile. The choice wasn't about which one I prefer (I really like 10+ wyches), but who could survive on foot.

I would love to put grotesques in. I feel naked without them. I've had grotesques and mandrakes in pretty much every list since 5th edition so I'm way outside my comfort zone. What would you drop? The Razorwing?
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commandersasha
Sybarite
commandersasha

Posts : 378
Join date : 2012-12-26
Location : Wimbledon, London

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 12:05

I have been running all 3 factions at 2K or the past year or so, and finding it robust and versatile. I struggle against deathstar lists if the mission is about killing, but any objective games and/or more mixed lists I find I always have the tools I need.

I run Obsidian Battalion: a Warlord Archon (attended by the Grotesques), a backline Archon to buff 2 Dissie Ravagers, and 3 Venoms with Warriors and a blaster;
A Prophets Patrol: Haem, Wracks and 2 talos as a deathstar (plus the Grots that hang out with the Archon)
A Cursed Blade Patrol: Succ, 8Wych, 5 Hellions(Invariably hiding and scoring, not attacking)
Beastmaster, 5 Fiends, 8 Flocks
5 DL Scourges sniping

The Venoms fly as a squadron, giving me 6 units of firepower, immensely manoeuvrable. The Beasts are a well-wrapped axe that punches through the middle of the table, dividing the enemy. The Coven follow up as a sledgehammer.
The Archon/Grots rule the second half of the game.

Everything else flits around at extreme range.

Amongst my gaming friends I get good feedback about it being a hard challenge, but clearly not min-maxed, and not really powerlisting: no Ynnari, no Vect.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

Posts : 165
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10 2019, 17:36

@commandersasha wrote:
I have been running all 3 factions at 2K or the past year or so, and finding it robust and versatile.  I struggle against deathstar lists if the mission is about killing, but any objective games and/or more mixed lists I find I always have the tools I need.

I run Obsidian Battalion: a Warlord Archon (attended by the Grotesques), a backline Archon to buff 2 Dissie Ravagers, and 3 Venoms with Warriors and a blaster;
A Prophets Patrol: Haem, Wracks and 2 talos as a deathstar (plus the Grots that hang out with the Archon)
A Cursed Blade Patrol: Succ, 8Wych, 5 Hellions(Invariably hiding and scoring, not attacking)
Beastmaster, 5 Fiends, 8 Flocks
5 DL Scourges sniping

The Venoms fly as a squadron, giving me 6 units of firepower, immensely manoeuvrable. The Beasts are a well-wrapped axe that punches through the middle of the table, dividing the enemy. The Coven follow up as a sledgehammer.
The Archon/Grots rule the second half of the game.

Everything else flits around at extreme range.

Amongst my gaming friends I get good feedback about it being a hard challenge, but clearly not min-maxed, and not really powerlisting: no Ynnari, no Vect.

Thanks for the reply. Your above list is much more like the kind of thing I typically run. Usually a Kabal battalion, then 2 of outrider/spearhead/vanguard. If I could offer any return advice, wouldn't trying to twist those patrols into more specialized detachments make it a bit better? It seems like you're leaving 2 CPs on the table.

This list, I'm trying specifically as a concept. Almost a parody of the Raiding Force because the Raiding force is junk. I don't expect it to be something I play for a long while, but I'm trying to get a practice game or two in before the tournament so I can make some tweaks.

I imagine I'll soon abandon it for a more diverse list with a few more tools to bring to bear.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

Posts : 165
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 25 2019, 03:37

Good news: I finally got a game in with this list and liked it more than I thought I would.

Bad news: the tournament I was hoping to attend sold out this weekend while I was out of town.

The version of the list I finally settled on was:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [58 PL, 1096pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 86pts]: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Warlord (Archon)

Archon [4 PL, 72pts]: Splinter pistol, Venom Blade

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [7 PL, 140pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Raider [5 PL, 81pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Shock Prow

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 450pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Prophets of Flesh

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 81pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Stinger Pistol

Haemonculus [5 PL, 81pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Stinger Pistol

+ Troops +

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

Wracks [5 PL, 96pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 9x Wracks

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [26 PL, 454pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Cursed Blade

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 54pts]: Agoniser, Archite Glaive

Succubus [4 PL, 55pts]: Archite Glaive, Impaler

+ Troops +

Wyches [2 PL, 48pts]
. Hekatrix: Power sword, Splinter pistol
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

Wyches [2 PL, 48pts]
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

Wyches [4 PL, 65pts]
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Splinter pistol
. 5x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

++ Total: [109 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

It's very similar, I just removed all index options and built it to be truly WYSIWYG. I still need to magnetize one of my ravagers so it can switch to disintegrators, for instance.

I played Big Guns Never Tire against space wolves. There was enough LoS blocking terrain that I was able to hide or position out of range of most of his stuff, but I ended up winning the roll for 1st turn anyway.

My lances blew up a dreadnought on turn 1. One with a giant plasma cannon thing and 13 wounds (redemptor??). My disintegrators rolled terribly and I managed to only kill 3 long fangs with 15 shots, but a venom made up for it by dropping the last 2 from long range.

His shooting did nearly nothing due to Lightning Fast Reactions on my ravager preventing his predator from doing anything. He dropped a few wracks with small arms fire and moved up.

Turn 2 I swamped the middle objective with 2 squads of wracks and one unit failed a 4" charge on intercessors. Haywire scourges dropped in and they, combined with lances, killed a predator. Both heavy supports killed now. My shredder scourges dropped and shot up some other intercessors on an objective and killed 3. Disintegrators started heating up and wiped a squad of super shooty primaris that look like centurions (I can't keep up with all their names).

He had a thunder wolf left from a squad of 3 and it charged and killed a warrior venom. Jump primaris marines deep struck and killed my Shredder scourges. Grey hunters piled out of a rhino and shot my haywire scourges but I only lost the solarite. He shot and charged my midfield wracks with various squads and brought them down to 2 models each.

Turn 3 I screwed up and missed my window to do Black Cornicopians. I was going to replenish a squad and bring it behind his 2 remaining intercessors on an objective. But I accidentally went into shooting before playing it unfortunately. No matter. I charged the grey hunters fighting those 2 wracks with 2 squads of wyches, and a succubus. The hunters died. My warlord and another succubus killed his last thunderwolf. My razorwing and haywire scourges shot his other grey hunter squad up pretty badly and they were down to 3 models. My disintegrator ravager killed 2 of his 3 primaris jumpers.

We were running low on time so we ended after his turn 3. He charged and killed a raider blocking his venerable dread from getting to the center objective. His lord and and a squad of intercessors finished off some wyches and 2 remaining wracks. Grey hunters shot at haywire scourges and killed 1.

At the end he had 2 intercessors on one objective, a rhino on another, and a 2nd rhino in my DZ for linebreaker. Total 3 VPs.

I had a full squad of wracks on one objective, 10 wyches and 2 wracks on the midfield objective, scourges getting linebreaker, I got first blood, and killed 2 heavies. Total 6 VPs.

It's fine that the battle ended when it did, because he would've had very little left after turn 4. A couple rhinos probably, and an HQ or 2. It was a good practice game where we both had a chance to shake some of the 40k rust off (it's been months since either of us have gotten a game in).

Takeways:

1) Remember Black Cornicopeans! That's one of the main gimmicks of this list. I just need to remember that "end of movement phase" timing window. Even when I don't have something in reserves, I actually do.

2) I love the pile of command points! Using Lightning Fast Reactions without worrying about it is great. Having CPs to spare makes your opponent make hard choices in the fight phase if there are multiple combats happening.

3) I really need to get my other squad of scourges with haywires up and running. Shredders are cool, but I have a lot of saturation as it is (both CC and shooting). I need dedicated vehicle killers, with a decent secondary function of shooting at infantry, not the other way around.

Thanks for reading!






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PostSubject: Re: Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force    Crazy enough to work? A rich man's Raiding Force  I_icon_minitime

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