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Vordras
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Vordras

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Join date : 2019-02-27
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PostSubject: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 09:25

Want is better to put Razorwing jetfighter in Battalion Obsidian Rose ? or Black Heart ? Or..?

How many attacks do a talos have with 2 x marco-scalpel ?

Do you get obsessions bonus form more kabals, if more Kabal detachments ?

Do Archon Aura effect crew, in venoms and Raiders and other transports ?

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 13:42

Black Heart is best for the extra save.

A talos with 2 macro scalpels get 7 attacks total, 5 base and 1 for each macro scalpel.

If you make a detachment that is all <Black Heart> and a detachment that is all <Obsidian Rose>, each detachment gets it own obsession.

No it does not as units in transports dont count as being on the table, so you archon on foot will buff everything nearby but if he is in a transport he cant buff anyone.
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Ragnos
Kabalite Warrior
Ragnos

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Join date : 2017-09-13
Location : Austria

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 14:07

@Gizamaluke wrote:

A talos with 2 macro scalpels get 7 attacks total, 5 base and 1 for each macro scalpel.

I think it's 6 attacks total. Because the wording is "1 additional attack with them".

This has also been discussed here : http://www.thedarkcity.net/t17391-talos-macro-scalpels

If it is really 7 that would be great, but I think it's "only" 6.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 15:08

Yep, you get the normal number of attacks (5) with 1 macro-scalpel and an additional attack (6) if you have 2 of them.

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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

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Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 19:57

@Gizamaluke wrote:
Black Heart is best for the extra save.

The extra save is nice, but rarely game altering. I prefer Flayed Skull for ignore cover. Disintegrater cannons and the various missiles are all very nice with ignore cover.

Pesky things like pathfinders just disappear when facing Flayed Skull.
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Gizamaluke
Sybarite
Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04 2019, 22:31

Fair point, I've just had a lot more success keeping flyers alive and active using the FNP but agree that Flayed Skull has its merits.

Also yeah I defer to others that you only get +1 attack from dual scalpels, I must have imagined the word "each" in there.
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Da-Rock
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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05 2019, 06:07

I played Black heart at first, but I have gone through 4 games and only saved twice on a 6 with vehicles. I am 100% Flayed Skull now, +3" move, ignores cover and rerolls of 1s on Rapid Fire....love it!

All Black Heart has is Vect strategem. I also like Poisoned Tongue for the rerolls of poison 1's. I have never played a sit still Drukhari list yet so Obsidian Rose gets shelved every time.
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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05 2019, 07:31

@Da-Rock wrote:
I played Black heart at first, but I have gone through 4 games and only saved twice on a 6 with vehicles.  I am 100% Flayed Skull now, +3" move, ignores cover and rerolls of 1s on Rapid Fire....love it!

All Black Heart has is Vect strategem.  I also like Poisoned Tongue for the rerolls of poison 1's.  I have never played a sit still Drukhari list yet so Obsidian Rose gets shelved every time.

In fairness, BH has the stratagem, warlord trait, AND relic. All 3 of their best aspects can be represented on 1 model. They're a minimal investment Kabal. Maximum bang for minimum buck.

Flayed Skull is the opposite. Their warlord trait is trash (Hatred Eternal is just better, no question). Their relic is designed around mitigating bad moments (not creating good moments), and their stratagem is best on power hitters like ravagers and raiders. Their obsession allows troops and their venom transports to spread out away from the archon's bubble. What FS excels at is enhancing every individual unit. The more bucks you invest, the more bang you get.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 06:03

I actually quite like the Flayed Skull warlord trait. The bonus to both strength and attacks as up. Statistically, combined they do more damage against T4. And my archon is rarely attacking anything higher than that anyway.
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Gizamaluke
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Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 09:41

I wish Poison Tongue had a better warlord trait & relic, it would be enough to sway me to play them as they were my favourite kabal (other than sliscus sky serpents) and really enjoyed using Lady Malys back in the day.
I tend to roll really well on FNP for vehicles but terrible on infantry and talos so maybe my perspective is skewed. It really changes the game up if you run BH though, I never thought agents of vect had that much of an effect as I rarely used it but having dropped it for a few games my friends have managed to pull a lot more stuff out the bag (like interrupting a squad of custode bikes to wipe out my 5 grots before they got to swing while I sat on 10cp asking why, why would I take Cursed Blade wyches over Black Heart with my Coven??)
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 09:46

@Vordras wrote:
Do Archon Aura effect crew, in venoms and Raiders and other transports ?

So, controversial second opinion, but I thought the answer to this was Yes.

Passangers in an Open Topped vehicle fire with all the same restrictions and modifiers as the vehicle it self. So as I read that, if the vehicle is under an aura effect from for example an Archon, this applies to passangers as well. Because its ALL restrictions and modifiers.
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Gizamaluke
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Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 09:50

I discussed this with my friends and it boiled down to a reroll is not a modifier as its described separately from modifiers in the big rule book and a reroll is not a restriction, but I was of the same opinion after researching if embarked GSC got the +1 to hit buff from the Jackal Alpha (they do, as it's a modifier).
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Lord Asvaldir
Wych
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 14:27

@Myrvn wrote:
I actually quite like the Flayed Skull warlord trait. The bonus to both strength and attacks as up. Statistically, combined they do more damage against T4. And my archon is rarely attacking anything higher than that anyway.

I've tried both famed savagery and hatred eternal a lot, I think hatred eternal wins out fairly often. Rerolls to wound on 7 attacks is just very good, and if you're stuck in combat for more than one round it's immediately going to pay off more than famed savagery. Plus as an added bonus it lets you reroll your blast pistol shot as well.

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sekac
Kabalite Warrior
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 15:00

@Myrvn wrote:
I actually quite like the Flayed Skull warlord trait. The bonus to both strength and attacks as up. Statistically, combined they do more damage against T4. And my archon is rarely attacking anything higher than that anyway.

It loses to Eternal Hatred in 2 major ways:
1) Eternal Hatred is always on. No if/then statements as far as the eye can see.
2) It's used for shooting too. Blasters and blast pistols re-rolling both hits and wounds is quite efficient.

Famed Savagery is slightly better only in very specific conditions. Eternal Hatred is way more generally useful.

General utility>conditional utility.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06 2019, 15:18

Huh. I never realized the shooting bit. That sold me. Thanks!
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Rules Questions   Rules Questions I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07 2019, 16:47

@Myrvn wrote:
Huh. I never realized the shooting bit. That sold me. Thanks!

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