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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 05:57

Well snap. It does indeed exclude heroic intervention. Boo.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 06:32

Where is this faq? b.c i dont remember any faq saying you cant Heroic on your opponents turn. I looked at some of the new ones and didnt find it. All the faqs i saw said you can heroic.

Edit: If you are talking about Heroic in your turn, well yeah you cant do that, you never could.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 11:45

Wait... What? I want proof of that as well please...
Also I'm not sure that his teleport counts as deep striking but that's another matter entirely
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 13:32

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3. Units cannot move except to Charge, Pile In or Consolidste in a turn when they are set up on the board.

So if you teleport in your opponents turn you cant heroically intervene
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 15:45

This clarifies it perfectly, thanks!

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 20:19

Despite the wording, I still think that it warrants a FAQ question to see if Heroic Intervention is possible, because GW's editing skills have been pretty poor as of late, so I wouldn't be entirely sure if the omission of Heroic Intervention from the list of things that the unit can do was intentional, or if the writer simply forgot about Heroic Intervention when writing it. Razz
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 20:23

@krayd wrote:
Despite the wording, I still think that it warrants a FAQ question to see if Heroic Intervention is possible, because GW's editing skills have been pretty poor as of late, so I wouldn't be entirely sure if the omission of Heroic Intervention from the list of things that the unit can do was intentional, or if the writer simply forgot about Heroic Intervention when writing it. Razz

GW forget a lot of rules when writing new rules.
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 21:43

I agree Im still not convinced that it's not possible for the yncarne since the clarification was clearly written for units that can deep strike during your turn and not your opponents turn, his ability is quite unique...
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeWed May 22 2019, 22:57

It's pretty clear cut, its regarding re setting models on the table by any means (deepstrike, black cornucopia etc) and the Yncarnes teleport is definitely a re setting of him on the table. I agree that they may just have forgotten heroic intervene but Heroic Intervene isnt in the list so it cant be used after you teleport in your enemies turn, so no suicide cheap units to get the Yncarne closer.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeFri May 24 2019, 17:17

@Gizamaluke wrote:
It's pretty clear cut, its regarding re setting models on the table by any means (deepstrike, black cornucopia etc) and the Yncarnes teleport is definitely a re setting of him on the table. I agree that they may just have forgotten heroic intervene but Heroic Intervene isnt in the list so it cant be used after you teleport in your enemies turn, so no suicide cheap units to get the Yncarne closer.

Yes, that is correct. It's not in the list. The point is that, unfortunately, GW needs to be prodded with a 'Did you *actually* specifically mean that?' on occasion. RAW, you can't heroically intervene. However, it still needs to be asked about, because I would give at least a 50% chance that they might say, "Oops. You can do that too, actually". I'm sure that it wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeFri May 24 2019, 17:21

Aye, but the depth of which that specific explained and bullet pointed I'd think they actually put a lot of thought into it. But yeah I would certainly love to be able to HI with the Yncarne! It came up twice in my last game using it and would have let me smash up some vehicles.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeFri May 24 2019, 17:48

The more I think about it, the less likely I am to think they would allow heroic intervention. They really don't appear to like things showing up and automatically getting into combat without a chance for the opponent to interact. And the Yncarne (to my knowledge) is the only unit that can land within 3" of an enemy on their turn. Can anything else do this?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeFri May 24 2019, 19:33

Nothing on your opponent's turn - but heroic intervention only happens on your opponent's turn anyway.

As for your own turn, the closest that I can think of offhand:

Sly Marbo can deploy at 9" and immediately move 1d6" and then charge.

It's possible for a Callidus to drop in at 4".


In any case, being able to do heroic intervention after appearing *might* mitigate the ridiculous point cost of the model somewhat. Razz
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeFri May 24 2019, 19:36

Point.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 16:34

HEY YOU GUYS!

Play a couple test games with Ynnari, 1 was with all CWE/DE/Quins, that was.... not fun. Another with DE/Quins, that was much better, but i'm really hoping to play test DE/CWE next and i think thats the sweet spot.

Yncarne: 100% not worth it at all anymore.... sadly it has been shelved. I'm a seasoned player with the Yncarne and have done well with it at local 12-20 man tournaments (im not a tournament player, but going 2-1 every game with it is good IMO).

Visarch: Much better now, still a bit over costed, but it is viable for 2 Ynnari detachments and his aura works.

Yvarine: Still good, still a must take.


But on another note, Reavers where much better, took a 9 man, great at turn 1 charges (can advance and charge) can re-roll wounds, etc.. and fallback, shoot, charge, great at chaff/bubble wrap killer or bubble wrap jumpers. I think they are finally worth to take as 1 large unit, they for sure out preform DE reavers. I have a theory that Ynnari is more of a Bike army now and so far my test games has shown that.

I most likely will play a few more Ynnari but going to play CWE/DE, starting with a 9man Shining Spears and 9 Reavers (2 units of bikes are good enough dont want to over saturate the strats for them).


So the idea of 2 units of Bikes, SS and Reavers, having an Autarch/Visarch (in a venom turn 1) for re-roll 1's for SS and a Archon for the Reavers, still taking the casters (Yvarine and Farseer/Warlock/w.e) for new Melee doom, etc..

Turn 1) Reavers will charge, using the stratagem to advance and charge, making sure to bubble wrap something they can not kill and that can not fallback, this is very important. And the Shining Spears move up, keep them protected/hiding a bit. Move venom/Warlock/farseer bikes up as well.

Turn 2) Shining Spears will now move, shoot, and charge, if you have to use the stratagem to advance and charge. The Reavers now will use the stratagem to fallback, shoot, and change. Get out the Archon/Visarch for the re-roll, run them if must.

Using the stratagems to tag team the bikes, with the powers and abilities for re-rolls, they are no where near as strong as old Ynnari, but nothing will be. You can effectively shut down 1+ units turn 1, then 2-3 turn 2.

The rest of your 1200pts will be the normal DE/CWE units, i am going to run 2x5 Kabals for troops and 1 Wych units of 20 for DSing. CWE i will run 1 20 man guardian DSing and 2 storm guardians or Rangers, something cheap. the Wyches and Guardians are meat to DS, something i like.

And lastly a airwing DE of 3 RWJF's

This comes out to around 1980pts.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:10

A couple of questions, amishprn86:

1) Do you think it's even worth running the (non-Airwing) DE detachment as Ynnari?

It doesn't really seem worth it just for a single Reaver squad. Especially given the various taxes and opportunity costs you have to pay in order to use Ynnari at all.


2) Out of interest, do you plan to use Dark Reapers or anything like that in the CWE detachment, or are you basically just taking troops and bikes?


3) Not actually a question but sad to hear that the Yncarne is crap now. I know Yvraine is probably the best of the three but I absolutely despise her model and I was hoping I'd be able to use Yncarne instead.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:19

I've been running pure Drukhari Reborn lately to try things out. I've actually had the opposite results with Yncarne and Visarch. Visarch is ok, but doesn't compare to an Archon with Eternal Hatred and Djinn Blade. So point for point, I don't really like the Visarch. If those models were the same cost I'd say the Visarch is worth it. I also admit I haven't used any CWE, so it may be that Visarch is much better when using multiple factions.

The Yncarne has been a beast. I've played around five games with him/her/it and the first was terrible, but each subsequent game that model has gotten better. Learning when to bounce around is a life saver and the ability to heal wounds is great. Plus it hits like a truck. With the Warlord trait, S7 and 7 attacks is crazy good. It blends characters and light vehicles like no other. I'd definitely say MVP for the recent games.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:20

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Not getting why Reavers are better as Ynnari? You pay 2CP each time to get Ynnari Reavers to advance and charge whereas Red Grief Reavers get it for free every turn plus they can re-roll failed charges. How does SfD make up for that?

Damage output, +1 to hit with +1 attack, re-roll wounds, sure they cost CP, but over all its more damage, 2+ re-roll 1's, Str 4 re-roll wounds, +1 attack. It doubles their damage.


@Soulless Samurai wrote:
A couple of questions, amishprn86:

1) Do you think it's even worth running the (non-Airwing) DE detachment as Ynnari?

It doesn't really seem worth it just for a single Reaver squad. Especially given the various taxes and opportunity costs you have to pay in order to use Ynnari at all.


2) Out of interest, do you plan to use Dark Reapers or anything like that in the CWE detachment, or are you basically just taking troops and bikes?


3) Not actually a question but sad to hear that the Yncarne is crap now. I know Yvraine is probably the best of the three but I absolutely despise her model and I was hoping I'd be able to use Yncarne instead.

1) The Airwing isnt Ynnari, its Flawed Skull (didnt say what traits sorry), i'm stopping doing 3 Ynnari detachments b.c Yncarne isnt worth it.

2) Honestly, no, only b.c i dont like the models, i played them awhile ago in Ynnari and it was neat and fun, but not my play style, i like to go with a style and play it. I feel Ynnari are good with some Bikes and wont to focus on them, Tho IDK what combo of bikes are better, i'm assuming CWE/Quins will be better, mostly b.c Skyweavers have anti-tank and anti-elite melee that can be anti-horde, especially b.c its 6D6 -1 ap shots and 18 melee that can re-roll/+1 to hit. But I dont like the idea of Skyweavers outside of Quins stratagems, my Skyweavers are tanks, 3++/-2 to hit, etc.. I can still see them doing well in Ynnari.

3) If the Yncarne had the +1 to cast it might be more worth it, failing even 1 of his powers really hurts him (I failed 3 my last game with him, a 5+ and a 6+ power, over 4 turns 8 powers, 5 success). In reality its a 250pt model now, there are other 200pt characters that out preforms it easily. Heck my Flyrants do more than it did.

B.c the teleport is only a "OH crap" button now, he is much harder to get into position and players are just using that.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:27

@Myrvn wrote:
I've been running pure Drukhari Reborn lately to try things out. I've actually had the opposite results with Yncarne and Visarch. Visarch is ok, but doesn't compare to an Archon with Eternal Hatred and Djinn Blade. So point for point, I don't really like the Visarch. If those models were the same cost I'd say the Visarch is worth it. I also admit I haven't used any CWE, so it may be that Visarch is much better when using multiple factions.

The Yncarne has been a beast. I've played around five games with him/her/it and the first was terrible, but each subsequent game that model has gotten better. Learning when to bounce around is a life saver and the ability to heal wounds is great. Plus it hits like a truck. With the Warlord trait, S7 and 7 attacks is crazy good. It blends characters and light vehicles like no other. I'd definitely say MVP for the recent games.

Visarch is better, still not better than a Archon, never said he was, i said its better to unlock a 2nd Ynnari detachment than the Yncarne.

There are not characters where i play that needs to be attack by him, any unit that gets to characters can kill them, support characters with auras are bad in melee, i have a solitaire for that purpose, why send a 337pt unit that a 98pt unit does the same thing?

Im glad it is working for you, but for me i can do everything it can do on other units for cheaper and have more options.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:31

Makes sense. I'm guessing it is a local meta thing.
I had. A game where the Yncarne was able to kill three characters in one turn. It was fun. Glad Visarch is working for you as well! I may try him again, but so far I've decided to drop him for Yncarne.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:36

@Myrvn wrote:
Makes sense. I'm guessing it is a local meta thing.
I had. A game where the Yncarne was able to kill three characters in one turn. It was fun. Glad Visarch is working for you as well! I may try him again, but so far I've decided to drop him for Yncarne.

How did you kill 3 in 1 turn? Did somewhere actually bubble 3 within 3"? did they not have Invuls?

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25 2019, 23:40

They were bunched up as buffing units behind a line of big guys. The ability to bounce over models in the charge phase again is awesome. Two were right next to each other and I was able to tag a third one. Couldn't quite get all four.

A 5++ on two of them. But only 3-4 wounds. Not major characters, but still.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26 2019, 01:06

@amishprn86 wrote:

1) The Airwing isnt Ynnari, its Flawed Skull (didnt say what traits sorry), i'm stopping doing 3 Ynnari detachments b.c Yncarne isnt worth it.

Fair enough, though I actually meant the NON-airwing detachment.

@amishprn86 wrote:

2) Honestly, no, only b.c i dont like the models, i played them awhile ago in Ynnari and it was neat and fun, but not my play style, i like to go with a style and play it. I feel Ynnari are good with some Bikes and wont to focus on them, Tho IDK what combo of bikes are better, i'm assuming CWE/Quins will be better, mostly b.c Skyweavers have anti-tank and anti-elite melee that can be anti-horde, especially b.c its 6D6 -1 ap shots and 18 melee that can re-roll/+1 to hit. But I dont like the idea of Skyweavers outside of Quins stratagems, my Skyweavers are tanks, 3++/-2 to hit, etc.. I can still see them doing well in Ynnari.


Fair enough, regarding Dark Reapers. I've been wondering if I can convert some stand-ins out of (mostly) Dark Eldar bits. Partially to fit the aesthetic of my army and partially because the official models look quite goofy to me. Razz

I can understand why you'd want Skyweavers. Their ranged and melee ability is definitely appealing in Ynnari. I've got a different issue with them, though - I'd want a Jetbike Psyker to accompany them (for Word of the Phoneix and such), but the Shadowseer is foot-only. Same issue I have with Reavers, to be honest. In both cases, I feel like I need to take a CWE detachment just to support them, and in that case I might as well just use Shining Spears or other CWE units.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26 2019, 05:22

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

Fair enough, regarding Dark Reapers. I've been wondering if I can convert some stand-ins out of (mostly) Dark Eldar bits. Partially to fit the aesthetic of my army and partially because the official models look quite goofy to me. Razz

These work perfectly with Kabalite Warriors Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 11 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26 2019, 10:01

@hydranixx wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:

Fair enough, regarding Dark Reapers. I've been wondering if I can convert some stand-ins out of (mostly) Dark Eldar bits. Partially to fit the aesthetic of my army and partially because the official models look quite goofy to me. Razz

These work perfectly with Kabalite Warriors Smile

Oh wow, those look perfect.

All I'd come up with so far was replacing a Wych's arm with a rocket-launcher. Razz

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