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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 21:56

@krayd wrote:
I was hoping that they would allow you to mix and match CW, DE, and Harlie units in one detachment, and that might compensate for some of the deficiencies in the new Ynarri index. However, that's not possible, due to the weird way that they decided to word the army construction for Ynarri. It would have been better if they had just made a list of units that you can take in a Ynarri detachment, and their respective roles (HQ, Troops, etc).

That would have been infinitely better, but I guess writing a list of preexisting models was just too much effort. Rolling Eyes

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 21:58

@Gizamaluke wrote:

Hitting on 3+, no rr1, rerolling all wounds (Troupe Master), fighting twice
17.78 wounds against TEQ
23.70 wounds against MEQ
35.56 wounds against GEQ
This difference gets even more absurd when you add +1A on the charge for being Frozen Stars.

So Harlequins dont like being Ynnari it seems.


Yeah, but doesn't fighting twice cost 3CP?
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:03

Wow. This is...bad. If I owned a Knight Castellan, I’d be feeling pretty nervous after seeing what they just did Ynnari.
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:07

By the way, does anyone know why The Visarch costs 120pts? He looks like a Canoness with a better melee weapon but a worse aura.

What exactly does he do that makes him so much more expensive?

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:15

@sweetbacon wrote:
Wow.  This is...bad.  If I owned a Knight Castellan, I’d be feeling pretty nervous after seeing what they just did Ynnari.  

Then again, it might be safe because it's Imperium. Razz

After all, the WD Assassins index is great. Probably overpowered (the vindicare and eversor are underpriced at 85 pts. IMO) even.
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Ripper.McGuirl
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:33

Oh man, you kids are right, I can’t just grab units from the various books and mix them in the same detachment. That’s complicated and annoying.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:35

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
By the way, does anyone know why The Visarch costs 120pts? He looks like a Canoness with a better melee weapon but a worse aura.

What exactly does he do that makes him so much more expensive?

I suspect that the regeneration that the special characters get might be being drastically over-valued by GW. "Regain lost wounds when nearby models die" is drastically less impressive when you realise that in most situations characters will only be taking damage when there aren't any friendly models nearby at all.

Useful in mirror matches, though.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:49

@krayd wrote:
@Gizamaluke wrote:

Hitting on 3+, no rr1, rerolling all wounds (Troupe Master), fighting twice
17.78 wounds against TEQ
23.70 wounds against MEQ
35.56 wounds against GEQ
This difference gets even more absurd when you add +1A on the charge for being Frozen Stars.

So Harlequins dont like being Ynnari it seems.


Yeah, but doesn't fighting twice cost 3CP?

That math was wrong was based on 6 attacks each Troupe but the gist of it is correct. Sure fighting twice costs 3cp but for 120pts you can get another 5 troupe instead of the visarch so any which way you swing it Ynnari is bad for Harlequins.

I'm gonna tinker around with the math on some of the other units to see if anything actively benefits from it but I dont think they will? Incubi having access to reroll wounds and reroll 1s bumps them up a bit over DE ones but anything wych cult is probably better off damage wise and mobility wise using Cult Obsessions, defensively the 5++ is useful for wyches on foot and hellions.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:50

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
By the way, does anyone know why The Visarch costs 120pts? He looks like a Canoness with a better melee weapon but a worse aura.

What exactly does he do that makes him so much more expensive?

Unlimited attack potential, if your opponent feeds him 20 characters he can do 25 attacks!!
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:52

Atleast warlocks can now take some real offensive spells since they're have to take Revenant spells too.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 22:55

@Gizamaluke wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
By the way, does anyone know why The Visarch costs 120pts? He looks like a Canoness with a better melee weapon but a worse aura.

What exactly does he do that makes him so much more expensive?

Unlimited attack potential, if your opponent feeds him 20 characters he can do 25 attacks!!

Only if they're Aeldari characters.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 23:00

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Gizamaluke wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
By the way, does anyone know why The Visarch costs 120pts? He looks like a Canoness with a better melee weapon but a worse aura.

What exactly does he do that makes him so much more expensive?

Unlimited attack potential, if your opponent feeds him 20 characters he can do 25 attacks!!

Only if they're Aeldari characters.

Oh... I always though that was if any character died he would power up. Haha Haha haa... can we just pretend Ynnari never happened?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 23:39

Yeah, struggling to think of anything positive to say about this index. Erm...the relics are nice?

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 23:56

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Yeah, struggling to think of anything positive to say about this index. Erm...the relics are nice?

I like one of the Warlord Traits. Would be great if I could take it without having to shoot myself in the foot with a bazooka.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 28 2019, 23:57

That itll be swiftly forgotten is about as nice as it gets.
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 01:29

Well hopefully now that the ynnari will fade into oblivion something good will emerge for the dark eldar...?
That's the only good thing I can think about...
I find it hilarious that the index was advertised as "the rise of the ynnari"... More like the utter fall of them lol
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 03:55

Ok, im super late, but been on other forums posting.

The Ynnari isnt as bad as you might think, it actually makes many units much more viable and gives DE 2 new HQ's to fill detachments (a battalion with 1 Archon and Yvarine as a DE detachment)


Units that are effected the most by the new rules

Melee Characters:
Autarch, Archon, Troupe Masters, etc..
A +3 Str, -3ap, 2D, MW on 6's and +1str/Attack with the ability for +1 to hit, re-rolls to hit, and re-rolls to wound

Melee Units:
Wraith units (all melee ones even the Wraithknight), Banshees, Scorpions, Wych cults (all), Shining Spears, Storm Guardians, Troupes, Skyweavers

Wraith Units
With the new powers with Yvarine, a Boneseer, a Wraith unit can either Heal 2D3, or heal1D3 and bring 1 model back to life, can gain +1 attacks, Re-roll hits/wounds, +1 to hit


Other things of Note

A Character can be revive on a 4+ can be re-rolled via CP

Bikes can Run and Charge still, this is even Shining Spears

In the fight phase any 1 Harlequins and any 1 Drukhari can have +1 attacks, for a unit to total, _1 attacks, +2 to hit, re-roll hits/wounds, this can be very strong.

Can Fallback, shoot and charge, Banshee's with no over watch in a 10man, can basically turn 1 charge, wrap a Rhino, then turn 2 fallback and charge any unit you want with .. +1 attacks, hits, re-roll wounds/hits, against Tau (charge a Suit) then charge Drones/warriors to clear up some over watch.


Conclusion

Over all there are some very strong combos, sure not as strong as 2x Shooting, but they are still not far from super nerf as everyone is thinking.

Im actually more existed for Ynnari than i have been.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 05:14

I hadn't thought about using a CP to reroll the resurrection strat. That's...really good all of a sudden.
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Gorgon
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 05:40

I think it needs to be digested a little longer but I'm liking a few things that jump out at me.

The troupe master with warden of souls and the hungering blade is great. 6 attacks at s7 with built in rerolls to wound generating mortal wounds is excellent. Actually edges out the archon as a standalone, but there's reroll hit and wound rules that evens them out.

United in death looks great. As written obviously needs one of each type of knife ears, thus one of each character so that's hard to build a list around.

I think reavers and hellions are really improved mostly through the 5++ and other psychic abilities. You can also leave the characters behind and still get psychic buffs.

My first tentative lists are a United in death list, 2 patrols 1 battalion, with a unit of quins, max reavers, max shining spears, mostly just to try things out, and second is a cult kabal brigade with yvraine, the yncarne, succubus, 3 lhameans, kabs, wychs, 3 ravagers and 27 bikes (I like the bikes, guilty pleasure). The drukhari mixed detachment has some upsides, not to mention psychic support.

Sent from Topic'it App
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 08:13

@Gorgon wrote:
I think it needs to be digested a little longer but I'm liking a few things that jump out at me.  

The troupe master with warden of souls and the hungering blade is great. 6 attacks at s7 with built in rerolls to wound generating mortal wounds is excellent. Actually edges out the archon as a standalone, but there's reroll hit and wound rules that evens them out.

United in death looks great. As written obviously needs one of each type of knife ears, thus one of each character so that's hard to build a list around.

I think reavers and hellions are really improved mostly through the 5++ and other psychic abilities. You can also leave the characters behind and still get psychic buffs.

My first tentative lists are a United in death list, 2 patrols 1 battalion, with a unit of quins, max reavers, max shining spears, mostly just to try things out, and second is a cult kabal brigade with yvraine, the yncarne, succubus, 3 lhameans, kabs, wychs, 3 ravagers and 27 bikes (I like the bikes, guilty pleasure). The drukhari mixed detachment has some upsides, not to mention psychic support.

Sent from Topic'it App

Sorry mate that brigade is invalid since you A) dont have an archon to unlock the Lhameans and B) they dont fulfil a detachment slot even if you did.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 09:00

@amishprn86 wrote:

The Ynnari isnt as bad as you might think, it actually makes many units much more viable and gives DE 2 new HQ's to fill detachments

Oh wonderful. I was running short of overpriced, footslogging HQs.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 10:47

@Gorgon wrote:
I think reavers and hellions are really improved mostly through the 5++ and other psychic abilities. You can also leave the characters behind and still get psychic buffs.

My concern here is that the Yncarne and Yvraine won't be able to keep up with these units, so you'll need at least one jetbike psyker. Which means you'll need two Ynnari detachments, which means you'll need to pay at minimum nearly 300 points in special character tax.

That's... not the end of the world, but it's also not great.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 12:02

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

The Ynnari isnt as bad as you might think, it actually makes many units much more viable and gives DE 2 new HQ's to fill detachments

Oh wonderful. I was running short of overpriced, footslogging HQs.

It means you can have 1 Archon and Yvarine, Yvarine is 50pts more, but will do a lot more than a 2nd archon, 2D3 MW's a turn and a Denial, its just as good in combat as an Archon as well.


Also, Ynnari DE can be a mix of Wych and Kabal, and the Auras now over lap, a Kabal can re-roll hits for Wyches, etc... With the ability to take 2 WL traits as well. We keep PFP and Drugs.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 12:05

@Burnage wrote:
@Gorgon wrote:
I think reavers and hellions are really improved mostly through the 5++ and other psychic abilities. You can also leave the characters behind and still get psychic buffs.

My concern here is that the Yncarne and Yvraine won't be able to keep up with these units, so you'll need at least one jetbike psyker. Which means you'll need two Ynnari detachments, which means you'll need to pay at minimum nearly 300 points in special character tax.

That's... not the end of the world, but it's also not great.

While true for DE, for CWE Ynnari its not a problem as they have Psykers on bikes and will already want to take them.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Mini Codex!   Ynnari Mini Codex! - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 29 2019, 12:59

Anyone remember what the rules are for multiple FNP-type abilities? Do you just use the best one that applies? If not, a DE Ynnari Warlord with the Lost Shroud, Lord of Rebirth and FNP would be really hard to kill!

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