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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 21:49

okay so short version do the kabalites inside a raider get the reroll+1 to hit if there is an archon within 6" of the raider they are in?

i was under the impression the whole crew got the buff but was playing with a much more experienced player who said they didn't and something about chapter aprroved

if you know the relevant place to look that would be helpful.
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AzraeI
Sybarite
AzraeI

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 22:26

difficult to say
on the one hand aura abilities dont buff units that are in transports
on the other the raider is considered the shooting unit
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Sarcron
Hellion
Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 23:19

I'm very sure there was an FAQ about it, that you can't give buffs to embarked units.

The raider itself will get the buff though, as long as its from the same kabal as the archon.

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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 23:44

yeah im trying to find any faqs related to it but not having any luck, the codex rule states "any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers" which is in the open-topped rule special to them.

but im still relatively new and haven't gotten CA yet or quite figured out the mess of faq changes.
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Sarcron
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 23:53

Ah, here we go. I found it.

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is
within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon
that transport affected by that ability?
A: No.


GW did FAQ it. It was in the FAQ for the rulebook.

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amishprn86
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 29 2019, 10:07

Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

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AzraeI
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AzraeI

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 29 2019, 10:56

@amishprn86 wrote:
Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

so embarked units never suffer a debuff to their hit rolls?
no because screw dark eldar and buy wave serpents
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amishprn86
Dracon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 29 2019, 11:17

@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

so embarked units never suffer a debuff to their hit rolls?
no because screw dark eldar and buy wave serpents

Is there an Aura ability that makes you -1 to hit? B.c every rule that i know of makes the unit you are shooting at -1 to hit, not your embarked unit.

Its saying you are not effected by auras "abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect"

If there is an aura that says "opponents are effect by this" then i would argue it doesnt, but to my knowledge there is 0 rules that say that.

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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 21:09

@amishprn86 wrote:
Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

i saw this but see this is where i would argue, because our open top rule specifically states units inside are effected by anything that effects the transports model.
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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 21:11

@Sarcron wrote:
Ah, here we go. I found it.

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is
within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon
that transport affected by that ability?
A: No.


GW did FAQ it. It was in the FAQ for the rulebook.

do you have a link? i can't find the damned thing
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AzraeI
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AzraeI

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 21:45

@amishprn86 wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

so embarked units never suffer a debuff to their hit rolls?
no because screw dark eldar and buy wave serpents

Is there an Aura ability that makes you -1 to hit? B.c every rule that i know of makes the unit you are shooting at -1 to hit, not your embarked unit.

Its saying you are not effected by auras "abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect"

If there is an aura that says "opponents are effect by this" then i would argue it doesnt, but to my knowledge there is 0 rules that say that.

i dont know one either

but other question: can the unit inside a raider be affected by the flayed skull stratagem?
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Sarcron
Hellion
Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 22:09

I think so? It's certainly not an aura, but then there's also the argument that embarked units aren't really there. I would say that they should be able to, but I'll go through the rules again.

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Sarcron
Hellion
Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 22:11

@Nogrim wrote:
@Sarcron wrote:
Ah, here we go. I found it.

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is
within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon
that transport affected by that ability?
A: No.


GW did FAQ it. It was in the FAQ for the rulebook.

do you have a link? i can't find the damned thing

Yeah sure,

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

It's on the bottom left of page six.

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Jimsolo
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 22:18

Looks like models in an Open Topped transport are affected by abilities that modify their shooting attacks (if that ability also affects their transport), with the exception of aura abilities.
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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2019, 22:24

well if this applies to our raiders its one hell of a wide ranging nerf we didnt need, and no one has talked about wtfh.

does anyone have the ork codex to check the wording on trukks?
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Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 31 2019, 01:53

I mean, at the top of 8th ed there was a whole lot of moaning and gnashing of teeth about it, I remember that.
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amishprn86
Dracon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Open top rules and auras   Open top rules and auras I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 31 2019, 10:14

@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Just look at Transport rules in the actual rule book, its very clear. You most likely over looked it b.c they are mixed in with transport rules.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English.pdf

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst
the unit that has the ability is embarked.

so embarked units never suffer a debuff to their hit rolls?
no because screw dark eldar and buy wave serpents

Is there an Aura ability that makes you -1 to hit? B.c every rule that i know of makes the unit you are shooting at -1 to hit, not your embarked unit.

Its saying you are not effected by auras "abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect"

If there is an aura that says "opponents are effect by this" then i would argue it doesnt, but to my knowledge there is 0 rules that say that.

i dont know one either

but other question: can the unit inside a raider be affected by the flayed skull stratagem?

@Sarcron wrote:
I think so? It's certainly not an aura, but then there's also the argument that embarked units aren't really there. I would say that they should be able to, but I'll go through the rules again.


No, the rules must call for units in the transport to effect them like the obsession does. Nothing effects units inside unless it states it. You cant even use Vehicle repairs for a tech marine if they are inside.

There is only 1 rule (and it is b.c it was faq'ed) only IB for nids (This was b.c players abused Fortification rules.. um.. it was me actually lol, Hive Guard in buildings means they get a better range and dont need a baby sitter, so they faq'ed that out.. sorry)

Edit: The rule that says "W/e effects the vehicle effects the passengers" is moreso for movements, DSing, LoS, etc..

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