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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 00:35

Edit: Here's my master list of things that either lower Leadership or punish people for having a low Leadership. If you can think of any others

Codex:Drukhari
Warlord Traits
Fear Incarnate
Ancient Evil

Obsessions
Distillers of Fear

Wargear
Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Grisly Trophies

Stratagems
Torment Grenade Launcher
Freakish Spectacle


Codex:Craftworlds
Wargear
Mindshock Pods

Psychic Powers
Horrify


Codex:Harlequins
Rules
Death is Not Enough (Death Jester)

Wargear
Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher


Forgeworld Index: Xenos
Rules
Shadow of Death (Shadow Spectres)
Spectre of Death (Irillyth)

Psychic Powers
Foreboding

So, I'm putting together a plan to start the Freakshow up again for 8th edition.

The only thing I've got is the DE codex, though.

Anything I should be looking at? I know the Hallucinogen Grenade Launchers and the Death Jesters are both Ld-shenanigans. Is there anything else in the Craftworlds or Harlequins codexes I should be looking at? Things that either lower Ld values or harm the enemy using Leadership shenanigans? Units, wargear, strategems, warlord traits, etc?

What about Chapter Approved 2018? We don't have anything in there at all, do we?


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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 01:24

I'm assuming that you're meaning an army that's all about having people fail morale tests, or at least lowering leadership. Otherwise ignore the rest of my post.

The Dark Creed perhaps? The haemonculus coven that has a stacking -Ld buff.

There's the warlord trait for archons that screws up enemy morale tests or something.

Incubi have their 'extra people run away' ability.

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Elfric
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 01:28

The dark creed leadership caps at -3 however any additional harlequin leadership bombs would stack on top of that -3.

The shadowseer hallucinogenic grenade launcher becomes very potent in this scenario.
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 02:08

I actually already have the Codex: Drukhari stuff mapped out, I'm just trying to see if there are any other Aeldari synergies in the other codexes (or other non-codex supplements) that I'm missing.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 06:48

I did a list of this myself a while back. I think it's at work so I'll check later.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 09:40

This was written last summer so doesn't take into account any FAQ or errata changes since then:

CODEX DRUKHARI

KABAL OF THE BLACK HEART: THIRST FOR POWER
Units with this obsession that have the Power From Pain ability (pg 87) treat the current battle round as being 1 higher than it actually is when determining what bonuses they gain. Units with this obsession that do not have the Power From Pain ability instead gain the Inured to Suffering bonus (pg 87)
Note – Use to lower enemy Ld within 6” of the unit on earlier Battle Rounds

THE DARK CREED: DISTILLERS OF FEAR (Haemonculus Coven units)
Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this obsession that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3)

PHANTASM GRENADE LAUNCHER (Sybarite, Hekatrix, Helliarch, Raider, Ravager)
If a unit is hit by one or more phantasm grenade launchers, subtract 1 from its Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn

POWER FROM PAIN (Battle Round 5+)
Mantle of Agony: Subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of enemy units that are within 6" of any units with this bonus in the Morale phase

TORMENTORS (Incubi, Drazhar)
Each time your opponent takes a Morale test for a unit that is within 6" of any enemy INCUBI units and the result of the Morale test equals the highest Leadership characteristic in the unit, the test is failed and one model flees the unit

GRISLY TROPHIES (Raider, Ravager, Venom)
Roll a D6 each time a model flees from a unit that is within 6" of any enemy models with grisly trophies. For each roll of 6, one additional model flees that unit (these cannot cause additional models to flee)

ARCHITECTS OF PAIN (Drukhari Stratagem)
Use this Stratagem at the start of the battle round. Choose a unit from your army that has the Power From Pain ability. Until the end of the battle round, that unit treats the current battle round as being 1 higher than it actually is when determining what bonuses it gains from the Power From Pain table. This is cumulative with other, similar effects (such as the Kabal of the Black Heart’s ‘Thirst for Power’ obsession)
Note – Use to lower enemy Ld within 6” of the unit on earlier Battle Rounds

FREAKISH SPECTACLE (Drukhari Stratagem)
Use this Stratagem when an enemy unit fails a Morale test within 6" of Urien Rakarth or a HAEMONCULUS COVEN unit from your army. One additional model flees from the enemy unit

PRAY THEY DON’T TAKE YOU ALIVE (Drukhari Stratagem)
Use this Stratagem if a DRUKHARI unit from your army slays the enemy Warlord in the Fight phase. For the remainder of the battle, every model in the enemy army subtracts 1 from its Leadership characteristic

TORMENT GRENADE (Drukhari Stratagem)
Use this Stratagem before a model from your army fires a phantasm grenade launcher. If an enemy unit is hit by an attack made with this weapon this phase, then, in addition to the usual effects, roll 3D6. If the result is higher than the highest Leadership characteristic in the enemy unit, it suffers D3 mortal wounds

THE ANIMUS VITAE
Abilities: You can only use this weapon once per battle. If it hits, the target suffers D3 mortal wounds. If any enemy models are slain by this weapon then, for the remainder of the turn, friendly units with the Power from Pain ability treat the current battle round as being 1 higher than it actually is when determining what bonuses they gain, so long as they remain within 6" of the bearer. This is cumulative with other, similar effects
Note – Use to lower enemy Ld within 6” of the unit on earlier Battle Rounds

ANCIENT EVIL (Kabal Warlord Trait)
The opposing player must roll an extra dice when taking Morale tests for units within 3" of this Warlord and use the highest result

FEAR INCARNATE (Dark Creed Warlord Trait)
Roll 2D6 for each enemy unit that is within 3" of your Warlord at the start of the Fight phase. If the result exceeds the highest Leadership characteristic in that unit, it suffers a mortal wound

CODEX CRAFTWORLDS and IMPERIAL ARMOUR: INDEX XENOS

HERALD OF VICTORY (Swooping Hawk Exarch)
You can add 1 to the Leadership of friendly <CRAFTWORLD> units within 3" of any unit that includes a Swooping Hawk Exarch
Note - Use on Farseer to boost effect of Mind War

MINDSHOCK PODS (Hemlock Wraithfighter)
Units must subtract 2 from their Leadership characteristic whilst they are within 12” of any enemy Hemlock Wraithfighters

RUNES OF BATTLE: EMBOLDEN (Warlocks)
+2LD for INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 18”
Note - Use on Farseer to boost effect of Mind War

RUNES OF BATTLE: HORRIFY (Warlocks, Hemlock Wraithfighter)
Choose an enemy unit within 18” of the psyker – your opponent must subtract 1 from the Leadership of that unit until your next Psychic Phase

RUNES OF FATE: MIND WAR (Farseers, Spiritseers, Eldrad)
Mind War has a Warp Charge value of 7. If manifested, choose an enemy CHARACTER model within 18” of the psyker. Each player then rolls a D6 and adds their model’s Leadership characteristic to their result. If your opponent scored higher, or if the scores are drawn, nothing happens. If the psyker’s score is higher, the target suffers a number of mortal wounds equal to the difference between the two scores

SHADOW OF DEATH (Shadow Spectres Exarch)
All enemy units within 6” of a Shadow Spectre Exarch must roll an additional dice when taking Morale tests, discarding the lowest dice rolled before determining the results

THE SPECTRE OF DEATH (Irillyth)
All enemy units within 18” of Irillyth or any friendly units of SHADOW SPECTRES must roll an additional dice when taking Morale tests, discarding the lowest dice rolled before determining the results

FOREBODING (Wraithseer)
Foreboding has a Warp Charge value of 8. If manifested, all enemy units within 6” of the PSYKER must reduce their Leadership characteristic by 1 whilst they are within 6”

CODEX HARLEQUINS

SILENT SHROUD: DANCE OF NIGHTMARES MADE FLESH
Subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of any enemy units while they are within 6” of any units from your army with this form. In addition, whenever your opponent takes a Morale test for a unit that is within 6” of any units from your army with this form, they must roll two dice and discard the lowest result

HALLUCINOGEN GRENADE LAUNCHER (Shadowseer)
Roll 2D6 if a unit is hit by this weapon – if the roll is equal to or greater than the target unit’s Leadership, then it suffers D3 mortal wounds.

DEATH IS NOT ENOUGH (Death Jester)
If any models flee from a unit in the same turn that it has been attacked by this model, then you can choose the first model that flees instead of your opponent choosing.

MASK OF SECRETS (Relic)
+1 Ld for wearer, -1LD for enemies in 6”

PHANTASMANCY : SHARDS OF LIGHT (Shadowseer)
A targetable smite. On a 7, any unit within 18” takes d3 mortal wounds, and is -1 to their leadership. This works well with the Shadowseer’s Grenade Launcher. So potentially the Shadowseer can generate 3d3 mortal wounds per turn (Smite, Shard of Light, and her Grenade Launcher).

SHRIEKER CANNON (Death Jester)
24”, Assault 1, S6, AP-1, D1 – Each time an infantry model is slain by an attack made with this weapon, its unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. If any models in a unit are slain by this weapon, subtract 2 from that unit’s Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn.

INDEX XENOS 1

ASU-VAR, THE SWORD OF SILENT SCREAMS (The Visarch)
Enemy units that suffer any unsaved wounds from this weapon subtract 1 from their Leadership until the end of the turn.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 13:27

Adhemar, you're the best!
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Gorgon
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 16:25

I've played a couple games with freakshow style lists to varying levels of success. I think mind war is absolutely essential in the list as it's the one of the best ways to kill characters that grant morale immunity. Add a hemlock with horrify and a warlock with embolden and pile in dark creed /silent shroud and you can kill that necron warlord or abbadon outright.

One annoying thing to note in list building is the only way covens can access pgls is on a raider, otherwise you'll need kabal/cults

Also I heard your talk on splintermind, congrats on getting your writing published, looking forward to reading it

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 16:30

Wow that is an impressive summary, makes me want to run a freakshow list. Seems to me that the ideal freakshow list really need to combine all the Eldar armies, if you were to just make a dark eldar freakshow list you really miss out on some of the great mortal wound abilities from craftsword/harlequins.

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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 16:44

Count, one more thing for the list since embolden is mentioned as a mind war buff, swooping hawks also have a +1ld within 3". It's minor but still useful

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 16:56

Thanks. I've added it to the post.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 02 2019, 09:01

So now I'm puzzling over which three factions to include. (I'd like to keep it to under 3 to keep it ITC legal.) Here's the thoughts I've had so far:

I need at least one Drukhari faction so I can bring some PGLs.

Wych cults let me bring the most PGLs, but none of the wych cult rules benefit the Freakshow theme.

Kabals have a compatible warlord trait, and the second highest number of PGLs.

Covens give ALL units a Ld debuff, which is potent, but has the least number of PGLs and smallest ranged potential.

Harlequins ALSO has a Masque trait to give universal debuffs, as well as a psyker HQ who can utterly annihilate characters with the Freakshow bennies.

Craftworlds Eldar has a couple decent psykers to add debuffs or hit them with psychic punishments, and the Shadow Spectres can offer huge negatives to Morale tests.

I am inclined to include a battery of Reapers, who can go with any DE faction, but work best in the Covens faction where a sniper Haemy can buff their Toughness. However, if I go with that, I can't add a battery of Ravagers, since they can only go in Kabal detachments.

What do you guys think?

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Gorgon
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 02 2019, 17:05

Trying to keep it in three detachments seems to be the hard part. A covens and craftworlds detachment has made it into every version I've tried, but the third detachment seems to flop between harlies and dark eldar.
I really like the silent shroud shadowseer and usually bring some skyweavers with him.
The other side I've tried a mixed drukhari detachment with an archon and a succubus to maximize alliance of agony. You get more pgls but that's about all the benefits from kabals and cults you get.
One thing I've noticed is because the covens only have a 5++, talos and grotesques don't seem to stay on the table long enough to hit combat. Might just be my matchups though.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 02 2019, 21:29

Interesting. Every tentative list I've made so far, its been craftworlders who get the axe (in favor of covens-harlies-kabal, usually). You might be right.

My worry with going the Alliance of Agony route in a single detachment, I worry I'm losing more than I'm gaining, since I don't get access to any obsessions.

I totally agree with your assessment of the grotesques and taloi; I didn't plan on including them at all. Wracks and Reapers all the way down, with a sniper haemy to hold them together.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 02 2019, 22:07

When I was toying with lists last summer I found it really hard to make a viable TAC list and still get the freakshow feel. I had lists I was generally happy with but they had hard counters where they would pretty much autolose.

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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 03:52

I think craftworlds have two tools almost necessary for the list and that's mind war and hemlocks. Mind war can one shot abbadon if you stack buffs and really go for it. Hemlocks have decent, somewhat unreliable firepower, but their -2ld at 12" is immense. You shoot an ossefactor and pgl at a guardsmen unit that's out of the way and kill one, 50% chance something runs away.

I definitely feel like I'm missing firepower though, so I can see what you're doing with reapers. My next list has 2 alaitoc wave serpents that'll hopefully buy my army enough time to cross the board and give my 6 harlie bikes an opportunity to deal damage.

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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 04:33

@Jimsolo wrote:

What do you guys think?


as noted you could potentially blend kabal/craftworld/harlequins with the Ynnari depending on what needs to be on its own for the chosen buffs.

a coven/ynnari might be an option.

you could take ravagers/hemlocks with them correct?
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 05:49

Unfortunately current ynnari rules are extremely limiting. Most notably is that you can't blend different aeldari into one detachments as per xenos 1 faq. Not to mention that one of the characters has to be the warlord. I actually considered the visarch but they're all a little pricey.

I hope a ynnari codex fixes the monstrosity that is ynnari rules and reworks them but that's a different topic.

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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 05:50

Can you take covens and ynnari in the same army? I thought they were verboten. Or is that just within the same detachment?

EDIT: Looking at it now, that's correct: Ynnari cannot be used with Covens in the same army at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 06:44

I think what you're reading is the first paragraph of the index ynnari entry. In the latest faq, that entire paragraph is scrapped, and it says you can't take covens on the detachment level, not army. But this mess of rules is an example of the monstrosity I mentioned.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 09:22

GW needs to completely scrap the existing Ynnari rules and go back to the drawing board. Make them a faction and allow actual soup at a detachment level BUT they lose all access to aeldari strats, relics etc and only have Ynnari ones.

Oh, and sort out SfD whilst they're at it.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 16:38

Yeah, alright, I have the correct reading now.

So, you could go Covens-Harlequins-Ynnari (Craftworlds+Kabal).

That seems like it could work.
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 17:43

@Jimsolo wrote:
Yeah, alright, I have the correct reading now.

So, you could go Covens-Harlequins-Ynnari (Craftworlds+Kabal).

That seems like it could work.

Continuing the theme of how messy the rules are at the moment, you can't have Craftworlds and Kabal in the same detachment now, even as Ynnari.
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 20:38

Good point...then there's really no point in having a Ynnari detachment at all.

So we're back to the question of which is the best detachment to exclude.

Covens-CWE-Harlies seems like the best plan of attack at the moment, but losing out on splinter rifle batteries and squadrons of ravagers makes me sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted   Freakshow 8e: Community advice wanted I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2019, 21:09

I've been looking at mortal wounds as my answer to the tough things you'd normally point ravagers at. Haywire, psychic, ossefactors, serpent shields are all great, but then you can leverage the leadership side for more. Just because a knight can't run in morale doesn't mean you can't hit it with torment grenades, shadowseer hallucinogen, dark creed warlord trait, mind war if it's a character. It takes a lot of concerted effort but I think there's enough tools to take down mech heavy or knight lists.

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