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yellabelly
Sybarite
yellabelly

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PostSubject: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 27 2018, 12:09

After failing my archons 2++ to multiple small attacks, I've come to the conclusion that Sslyth are well worth investigating. I've not used them before but I've worked two into my lists, with the plan of handling single damage hits via archons armour then passing fails onto the bodyguards. Then I can save my shadowfield to fend off big hits from nasty combat characters or any big guns that might manage a shot at him.
I run a Flayed Skull (djinn blade, famed savagery) archon so he's worth keeping alive, as he can cause proper hurt, but he's so squishy once that invul fails. Has anyone tried this? Do you run Sslyth regularly or did you try it and drop it because it just didn't work?
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Myca
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 27 2018, 15:20

Hey,

I have played - with a proxy army - a 1K Kabal list (poisoned tongue) for about a dozen games now and have faced Nids, Necrons, Other Eldar (of all flavours), T'au and Chaos. I guess what I am trying to say, as a proviso, is that although I myself believe what I'm about to say ... others might have more data to the contrary. I know that larger games bring different levels of threat to the field and more dice mean more chances to botch that 2++. As another note, most of my games are multiplayer, so sometimes i am ignored and sometimes I am targeted by everyone.

I'll start with my - probably generalised - statement. Yes I think Sslyth are worth their weight in slaves. I take three, to cover two Archons.

I use them similar to the above, anything with damage D(X) is going through my shadow-field first and, if that's not enough, gets passed along to the Sslyth.
I try to avoid getting into situations where he's against 'weight of dice' units but sometimes that's just not possible. In those cases I take a look at the field and make my decision. If he is likely to get a charge off next turn I will take all the dice on his shadow field. Because, even if he loses it, he is likely to make his points back over the next combat or so. I also have soul thirster and the parasites kiss, so he makes his wounds back quickly enough. If he is still at the back, just out of transport or some other - less ideal situation - I will just split it 50/50 and let the gods decide. The gods have decided to kill him once in this manner. Harlequins, who shot a gap in my formation and charged through it with a few players. I simply didn't have enough ablative wounds left.

My Archon has only once come under massed ranged fire because I usually surround him with said Sslyth and Incubi (who have a far better armour save). That was the T'au who - similar to the Harlequins - shot until he was the closest enemy unit. (He fell out of a transport at a bad time, I misplayed)

As an additional bonus to the above, though they do not benefit from any of the Pfp stuff, they're not bad for what they cost. They're as tough as Wracks being boosted by a Haemonculus and pretty good at both combat and range. They don't get my Obsession bonus but they still do damage.

All in all I just think it's a shame I can't take four per Archon... Because I totally would.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 27 2018, 17:25

I find Archons weak enough that they're not worth investing points into in order to keep them alive longer, to be honest. Yeah, you could take three Sslyths to mitigate damage for them but that's a pretty hefty 150+ points overall for not much benefit.

You'd be better off spending the 80 points of Sslyths on something like a unit of Mandrakes or Haywire Scourges.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 27 2018, 19:56

I dont give a Exclamation if my archon dies lol. I have 2, 1 for re-rolls of vehicles, and 1 for being annoying (and filling out the battalion). I throw him away all the time, heck he held up Gman for 2 rounds once. I see the Archons as utilities in 8th, not something to worry if its dead or not.

So, why put points into them? Are your Archons really doing anything worthy to add another 30-60 pts to them? They already are over priced IMO. I also play SoB, and a Canoness is in every way better, 45pts (49 with power weapon) for the same model only that its 3++ or 4++ and a 6+++ over a 2++/6+++

I take 2 in my SoB army, 1 that is 4++ with a +2S, -3, 3D weapon, and the other a 3++ with a x2S, -4, D3 weapon, both also have a Infero Pistol and cost less than an Archon, both having re-roll 1's aura too. (the 4++/Relic sword is 56pts ffs).

So i dont see any reason to add more points to him.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 27 2018, 22:39

I've considered Sslyth but like the two posters above, I just don't see the point.

My Warlord Archon generally doesn't enter combat at all (I play Poison Tongue, so he's usually sniping at enemies from 18" away, behind cover).

My secondary Archon runs headlong at the enemy along with 3 Lhamaeans. I don't give a damn if he dies or not. He's nothing but a tax and, whilst the unit might sound intimidating, it's entirely expendable and entirely irrelevant to my overall battle plan.

Personally, if I was playing Flayed Skull and was worried about losing my Archon's 2++, I'd just give him Obsidian Veil.

Something of an aside, but I believe more than ever that an Archon who loses his Shadowfield should still get a 5++ or something. Having no save whatsoever is absolute garbage. I'd rather just have a basic 4++.


@amishprn86 wrote:

So, why put points into them? Are your Archons really doing anything worthy to add another 30-60 pts to them? They already are over priced IMO. I also play SoB, and a Canoness is in every way better, 45pts (49 with power weapon) for the same model only that its 3++ or 4++ and a 6+++ over a 2++/6+++

I take 2 in my SoB army, 1 that is 4++ with a +2S, -3, 3D weapon, and the other a 3++ with a x2S, -4, D3 weapon, both also have a Infero Pistol and cost less than an Archon, both having re-roll 1's aura too. (the 4++/Relic sword is 56pts ffs).

So i dont see any reason to add more points to him.


So much this.

I was looking at Canonesses recently and is depressed me how they're outright better than Archons, yet are just ~2/3 the price. They have the same reroll 1s aura but, unlike the Archon, the Canoness can actually make use of it (since SoB can castle up easily and don't shoot out of vehicles). What's more, their relics make them drastically better in just about any role they could want.

Also, the Canoness gets to upgrade a 4pt weapon (base S:User, AP-3, D1) to a relic with S+2, AP-3, D3

Meanwhile, the Archon gets to upgrade a 6pt weapon (base S+1, AP-2, Dd3) to a Relic with S+1, AP-3, Dd3 and +2A.

Apparently the former is perfectly fine, yet the latter is so powerful that there needs to be a risk to using it. Neutral

Then again, the Succubus needs to take a relic just to gain access to a basic Power Fist equivalent.

Is there some sort of mandate that DE have to have terrible HQs?

/rant

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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2018, 02:33

@Myca wrote:
Hey,
As an additional bonus to the above, though they do not benefit from any of the Pfp stuff, they're not bad for what they cost.


actually if they are black heart (as they do gain obsession of kabal) then they do at least get insensible to pain, which imho is pretty big deal.


seeing your post actually makes me quite happy as an new archon, i just ordered three of them to sit in my two archon venom for this exact reason. it makes me glad to see some one seconding the line of thought.

its some extra shooting from the venom, can eat up wounds when he get in to CC (not to mention just the physical blocking) and deal a fair amount of attacks out at the same time.

(ill be honest there was a lot of "wanting to paint some snake men" that effected my decision)
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yellabelly
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yellabelly

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2018, 07:42

Thanks for the responses guys! Some interesting things to mull over.
I'm running a Kabal/Cult list, so no Talos. The Flayed Skull Archon is the most potent combat element in my army for taking down enemy characters and even handling vehicles nicely. He's also do a good job against heavy infantry, which is where something like the Sslyth can make a difference to his shadowfield being overwhelmed. I'd agree that a bare bones archon isn't worth bodyguarding though.
Nogrim, let me know how you get on! I'll do the same. Don't be put off trying units for yourself and see how they do. It's easy to write 75% of our codex off based on internet wisdom, but different units perform in different lists. Check Skaris bat reps (Skaredcast) out if you haven't already. He's good for thinking outside the box and taking a good variety of units in varied lists.
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Nogrim
Kabalite Warrior
Nogrim

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 29 2018, 15:20

yeah i watch skarii pretty regularly. they showed up yesterday, not sure ill be able to get them in to my list for next match but ill likely revisit this post after i try them out a few times.

my biggest concern is having something else in the transport in case it explodes id rather kill the ssly than give them my warlord or an archon.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 02 2019, 21:20

I run the djinn blade archon all the time, really like using him a lot but I'm not sure it's very worthwhile to invest a lot of pts in ssylths. One maybe to handle the couple extra wounds and keep him alive longer, but I invest in many beyond that. In addition, now that ssylths aren't characters your opponent is welcome to just single them out, so they could just kill the ssylth with a higher damage weapon and then spam lots of shots at the archon to get rid of the shadowfield, which kinda defeats the purpose.

Also another note, I think hatred eternal is a better trait than famed savagery. I'd gladly give up the extra s/a in the first round of combat for guaranteed reroll wound rolls every round.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 04 2019, 17:16

So its confirmed that you can throw the Sslyth in front of the bolter shot and save your Shadowfield?

My main objection to Sslyth is that the model is monopose and needs to be special ordered into the store Razz Also that there is no easy conversion using GW parts for the Sslyth (would love to be corrected here).

As others have said, the Archon is best kept cheap. Investing more points just doesnt seem like money well spent. However, I do run Covens, and my beatstick Archon runs up the middle of the field in a flock (murder?) of Grotesques along with a Haemi and a Succi. Grots are cheaper than Sslyth, and as PoF are tougher (gut feeling, not mathhammer). More Sslyth = less Grots.

But if you dont do Covens, YMMV. Would heavily suggest dipping your toe in to the Coven pool. Lots of fun conversions to model, and are powerful on the table to boot.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 04 2019, 17:43

@fisheyes wrote:
My main objection to Sslyth is that the model is monopose and needs to be special ordered into the store Razz Also that there is no easy conversion using GW parts for the Sslyth (would love to be corrected here).

Daughters of Khaine Melusai. Stick a Shardcarbine on them and you've instantly got a great Sslyth proxy.
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Elfric
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 28 2019, 01:25

Archon with a blaster is never a bad investment with his 2+BS
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 10:12

@yellabelly wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys! Some interesting things to mull over.
I'm running a Kabal/Cult list, so no Talos. The Flayed Skull Archon is the most potent combat element in my army for taking down enemy characters and even handling vehicles nicely. He's also do a good job against heavy infantry, which is where something like the Sslyth can make a difference to his shadowfield being overwhelmed. I'd agree that a bare bones archon isn't worth bodyguarding though.
Nogrim, let me know how you get on! I'll do the same. Don't be put off trying units for yourself and see how they do. It's easy to write 75% of our codex off based on internet wisdom, but different units perform in different lists. Check Skaris bat reps (Skaredcast) out if you haven't already. He's good for thinking outside the box and taking a good variety of units in varied lists.
\\

Yep, Drukhari Codex is litterally made for thinking outside the box! A lot of people still don't get it Wink

PS: And Archons are amazing as an HQ choice btw. I agree with you
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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth - preserving the 2++   Sslyth - preserving the 2++ I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 13:20

I use my archons (actually all our HQs) as a close combat elite squad. Put them in a raider together with 5 wyches/wracks or whatsoever. Use enhanced aether sails, screaming jets and fire and fade to deliver them somewhere behind the enemy lines if possible.

2 Archons with blast pistols, 2 Succubi and a Haemi with Vexator mask make a really good CC force. But you need to get them there. Especially when I play against IG, Space Marines even Tyranids this has nearly always been a good tactic. I mean, what else would you do with our HQs. If you want you can save 1 Archon for re-roll aura and replace it with a sslyth or lhamaean.

Getting to the topic, I have to say that I used sslyths in the past, but exchanged them in favor for lhamaeans or troops. The additional points for the sslyth are better used elsewhere, e.g. take 5 wracks as meatshield.
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