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Crokadilla
Hellion
Crokadilla

Posts : 30
Join date : 2018-05-05

PostSubject: Splinter Racks   Sat Dec 15 2018, 17:12

Is Splinter Racks ever worth it?

It seems as if it would work better with Flayed Skull with the rerolls, but I also usually run 2 blasters/shredders and 1 dark lance on my Raider-bound Kabalites, so it means it would have to be worth it for 7 splinter rifles.
Probably better when within rapid fire range.

Even if splinter racks is not worth it for this particular scenario, is there ever a time where it is?
7 splinter rifles and the splinter cannon maybe? (Although why would we ever?)
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Gizamaluke
Kabalite Warrior
Gizamaluke

Posts : 116
Join date : 2013-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sat Dec 15 2018, 19:19

I'm not sure really, it's kind of expensive for potentially 1/2 extra shots so probably not unless you have the points spare and really can't find something to spend the 10pts on But you almost always will
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Rusty293
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Join date : 2014-03-29

PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sat Dec 15 2018, 19:52

I think if it worked on splinter cannons it would be a different proposition. That said ive got a game coming up on Tuesday and will be trying 2 raider squads with the splinter wracks, just to see how it does.
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Soulless Samurai
Wych
Soulless Samurai

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Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sun Dec 16 2018, 00:22

I'm not a fan, honestly (which is a shame, because I used to love Splinter Racks). My reasons are:

1) Poison in general is pretty awful in 8th. Whilst 'nids get stuff like d3 damage, double damage on 6s, Mortal Wounds etc. (all of which work fine against vehicles and Titanic units), we're stuck with a pathetic 'wound stuff on 4s or 6s' mechanic. Most of the units poison used to be effective against (bikes, monsters etc.) has been given extra wounds, but poison remains either unchanged or outright worse. Added to that, the fact that most basic guns wound high-toughness units on 5s anyway means we gain almost nothing in exchange for needing 4s to wound even guardsmen. Not to mention the fact that we also need 6s to wound vehicles and Titanic units (including Titanic Monsters). Put simply, poison is so ineffective against Monsters and such that you might as well just skip it entirely and use Disintegrators, missiles or Grotesques instead. This might not be so bad except that Poison has already traded away effectiveness against T3 units. So it isn't even good against basic infantry.

TL:DR The poison mechanic is so utterly awful that I see no reason to invest anything more than the absolute minimum in poison weapons.


2) Even the Splinter Racks themselves are a mere shadow of their former selves. All other twin-linked abilities were changed to double shots, yet ours was instead changed to 'an extra hit on each 6 to hit'.

So now we're talking about a pathetic bonus for an already pathetic mechanic. Fan-flipping-tastic.


3) This might just be my personal experience, but I find my Raiders rarely last more than a couple of turns. So even if I did take Splinter Racks, I'd be lucky if I got to use them more than once per game.


Oh and Splinter Racks don't actually work on the Splinter Cannon. Because synergy is something Dark Eldar can only dream of. Rolling Eyes


If you're determined to use them anyway, then Flayed Skulls probably gain the most from Splinter Racks (they also have extra movement to get you into rapid-fire range faster), but they also suffer the most when their transports are lost. I guess it depends on whether you'd rather put points into enhancing your strengths or covering your weaknesses.

Black Heart might also merit mentioning as their 6+++ might help keep your Raider around a little longer.

Obsidian Rose gives a slightly increased Rapid Fire range, though I'd be surprised it it made much difference (they also give a greater maximum range but I doubt Splinter Racks will be worthwhile if you're not rapid-firing).

Poison Tongue... like poison weapons and that's about it. Razz

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Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

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PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sun Dec 16 2018, 01:19

Mathematically, it's the same benefit (perhaps surprisingly) regardless of Flayed Skull or Poisoned Tongue.

Assuming rapid fire and 10 rifles on board:

For Black Heart or Obsidian Rose the extra wounds are 20 (shots) × 1/6 (hit on 6+) × 1/2 (wound) = 5/3 = 30/18 extra wounds

For Flayed Skull the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × 1/2 + 20 × 1/6 (rerolls to hit) × 1/6 × 1/2 = 35/18

For Poisoned Tongue the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × (1/2 + 1/6 (rerolls to wound) × 1/2) = 35/18

As a comparison, extra Kabalites would give 2 shots × 2/3 hit × 1/2 wound = 2/3 wounds (or 7/9 with Flayed Skull or Poisoned Tongue). Splinter racks are worth two and a bit Kabalites if you don't take any special weapons. However, they can't survive the Raider crashing and can't disembark. Like the Splinter cannon, they are OK, but you are probably best adding another unit instead of spending points on lots of little upgrades.

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GreyArea
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sun Dec 16 2018, 09:05

You are also assuming no special or heavy weapons which is going to be very rare anyway. If you take those it's efficiency drops.

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Soulless Samurai
Wych
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sun Dec 16 2018, 11:25

@Kantalla wrote:
Mathematically, it's the same benefit (perhaps surprisingly) regardless of Flayed Skull or Poisoned Tongue.

Assuming rapid fire and 10 rifles on board:

For Black Heart or Obsidian Rose the extra wounds are 20 (shots) × 1/6 (hit on 6+) × 1/2 (wound) = 5/3 = 30/18 extra wounds

For Flayed Skull the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × 1/2 + 20 × 1/6 (rerolls to hit) × 1/6 × 1/2 = 35/18

For Poisoned Tongue the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × (1/2 + 1/6 (rerolls to wound) × 1/2) = 35/18

I just checked your math myself and you are indeed correct.

I'll freely confess to being quite surprised by that result. I'd have thought that rerolling 1s to-hit would be more effective (as each of those rerolls could potentially result in 2 hits via Splinter Racks). But you're right - it's exactly the same whether you're rerolling 1s to hit or to wound.

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Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

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Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Sun Dec 16 2018, 20:24

@GreyArea wrote:
You are also assuming no special or heavy weapons which is going to be very rare anyway. If you take those it's efficiency drops.
This is true. I did it for two reasons: to show the absolute best case for splinter racks (even if rare), and to make the math easier.

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withershadow
Wych
withershadow

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Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Splinter Racks   Thu Dec 27 2018, 03:15

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Kantalla wrote:
Mathematically, it's the same benefit (perhaps surprisingly) regardless of Flayed Skull or Poisoned Tongue.

Assuming rapid fire and 10 rifles on board:

For Black Heart or Obsidian Rose the extra wounds are 20 (shots) × 1/6 (hit on 6+) × 1/2 (wound) = 5/3 = 30/18 extra wounds

For Flayed Skull the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × 1/2 + 20 × 1/6 (rerolls to hit) × 1/6 × 1/2 = 35/18

For Poisoned Tongue the extra wounds are 20 × 1/6 × (1/2 + 1/6 (rerolls to wound) × 1/2) = 35/18

I just checked your math myself and you are indeed correct.

I'll freely confess to being quite surprised by that result. I'd have thought that rerolling 1s to-hit would be more effective (as each of those rerolls could potentially result in 2 hits via Splinter Racks). But you're right - it's exactly the same whether you're rerolling 1s to hit or to wound.
While the mathematical mean does amount to the same when you consider all the rolls, I still heavily lean towards Flayed Skull because I would rather have more hits that can be potentially damaging, rather than being more likely to damage when I do hit. Perhaps silly, but Flayed Skull also directly interacts with their transports by being able to ignore cover (super useful in city of death new rules), and double dip on the anti-flyer stratagem.

While my view of poison is not quite as dire as Samurai's, the criticism is valid. As far splinter racks go, they are effectively representing those extra crew guys no one puts on their skimmers. It's the firepower equivalent of buying two additional warriors for 10 points, but they can't fight in melee, can't hold objectives, and die with the boat. I usually do it because we're pretty relaxed around here (I keep pushing for using PLs so we can just go really nuts), but tournament worthy it's probably not.

For what it's worth, Raiders grant additional AP due to elevated firing positions in urban combat, Don't let them tell you Chapter Approved didn't give us anything. Razz
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