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 Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)

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krayd
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PostSubject: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 16:24

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-xenos-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

GW started previewing the new type of 'formations' - Today they're looking at Xenos.

As far as I can tell, based on the other Vigilus preview shots, each specialist detachment will have a new warlord trait, a relic, and a handful of stratagems.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 16:41

The ork relic is nice and the GSC aberrant strat is amazing. +1A on a unit that only has 2A base (+1 for charge and +1 for swords, not that you'd take them) isn't too amazing for the Wraith Host but could make for a nice combo with the Iyanden metronome. Reroll charges is cool but theyre pretty darn slow anyway. Here's hoping theres a bit more to it.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 17:22

Gizamaluke, do you play Craftworlds? If so, obviously not at all like me.

+1A on Wraithblades is BANANAS. Every game - *every game* - I wish my Wraithblades had an additional attack. Swords get +1A for the swords, +1A for charging (Fires of Wrath), now an additional +1A?! FIVE attacks?! Holy hell.

Axes have been sitting on the sidelines more for me for this very reason - they needed at least one more attack for me to want to use them.
Now, 3 attack base and 4 with a charge?

:swoons:

I've been playing nearly exclusively wraithost for a year. This is going to make my local players super giggly to play me.

I don't know how that can be considered "slow" by anyone. They move 14-20" the first turn then get out of their Wave Serpent 3", then move, then charge. They're on the other side of the table.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 17:35

You're right I don't play wraiths at all, more of a aspect warrior kinda guy. I was looking at it from a single 10 man squad perspective in a supreme command so the wraith knight can get the Wraith Host without costing an additional CP (incase there is a second stratagem that helps it or the relic works on him).
SUPREME COMMAND IYANDEN WRAITH HOST
Wraithseer - FNP spell
Spiritseer - reroll charge warlord Iyanden relic, protect/jinx
Spiritseer - +1 to hit spell
10 wraith blades with axes
Wraith knight with suncannon

That's what I had in mind as a contained specialist detachment (wish I could have gotten a wraithlord in too) but a dedicated wraith player like yourself would be able to use it on their Batallion or Vanguard.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 18:05

Well, that explains it!
When you have some time to kill and you want to play Craftworlds *WAY* differently, try running:
6-8 Wraithguard-cannons in a web strike
6 Wraithguard - cannons or scythes - in a Wave Serpent
6 Wraithblades - swords - in a Wave Serpent as a precision knife attack (hunt dudes or bog down vehicles)
6 Wraithblades - axes - in a Wave Serpent as a tank wrecker or monster slayer.
Throw a farseer in there for Doom and Guide.

Now with more choppy than ever. Now with more wraithy-goodness than ever. Will have to look at rules again to see if I can Bone Flute a specialized wraith wave serpent already running under Iyanden. OMG.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 18:21

If I'm reading that right, Ynnari can't use the command benefits.

+1A is worse than attacking twice for free, so... doubt it'll see play.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 18:48

@TeenageAngst wrote:
If I'm reading that right, Ynnari can't use the command benefits.

+1A is worse than attacking twice for free, so... doubt it'll see play.

What makes you say that? It doesn't look to me like there's any reason you wouldn't be able to play the Wraith Host stratagem on a Ynnari Craftworld detachment.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:01

Ynnari detachments don't count as Craftworld detachments I don't think.

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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:05

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Ynnari detachments don't count as Craftworld detachments I don't think.

The current trainwreck that is their ruleset says they do.

Quote :
If Yvraine, the Visarch or the Yncarne is included in a Detachment, all Aeldari units in that Detachment gain the Ynnari keyword... The Detachment is still considered to be a Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Detachment, and so can use Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics respectively.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:07

Just what we need, Ynnari Wraithblades with +1 attack and attacking twice a turn.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:11

Rerolling all hits with the Iyanden stratagem, and the Psytronome! 10 wraiths putting out 100 wraithsword attacks rerolling all failed hits then putting out another 100 hits with soulburst, cast empower on them for +1 to wound or doom the targets.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:11

But only on your turn! Boom. Balance.

:sarcasm:
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:13

@Gizamaluke wrote:
Rerolling all hits with the Iyanden stratagem, and the Psytronome! 10 wraiths putting out 100 wraithsword attacks rerolling all failed hits then putting out another 100 hits with soulburst, cast empower on them for +1 to wound or doom the targets.

But Grotesques and Ravagers are too powerful, they need a nerf.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:21

To be honest you could do that before just with 80 attacks a swing with the swords which seems obscene and it wasn't deemed strong enough to be competitive, who knows maybe now that the shiftshroud doesn't work the Psytronome and wraiths will get a turn. The axes seem like they'd be pretty scary too; 80 attacks with Psytronome(160 with soulburst), swap the +1 to wound spell with +1 to hit and do the same thing but each swing is d3 damage... They may be too expensive at that price though.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:24

Well, thus far, there have been no substantial leaks of any DE units being nerfed at all.

and I'm still wondering where people are getting the '-1 to hit subfaction rules being changed to +1 cover' rule rumor from. As I understand, it is due to some off-hand comment that Reecius made while he was speculating - if he was actually in the know about it, I doubt that he would be able to be that specific, with NDA's being what they are and all. So, I still have no idea if anyone has a real source for that rumor, or if they're still going off of Reecius's comment.
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:28

Reece is a playtester and GW takes their word as gospel. As for the wraithblades, they're seen competitively just not very common when compared to more sure-bet things like Shining Spears.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:34

I wasn't referring to that rumour Krayd with my comment about the Shiftshroud, I more meant that current rules prohibit turn 1 deepstrike and the shroud explicitly says it works at the end of the first turn.

I'm struggling to think of what Nimble Escape might do except allow you to consolidate out of combat for 2cp, so you could do some real hit and run tactics like the Red Grief stratagem to consolidate into a vehicle before they strike back.
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 19:51

I managed to have some fun with the Wraithknight using the Psytronome and Supreme Disdain already. Now that is looking at 100ish points off, extra attack and reroll charges.

I'm seeing a Craftworlds Supreme Command of Farseer + Spiritseer + Warlock with Wraithblades in a Wave Serpent and Wraithknight as an appealing addition to a shooty Kabal force.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 20:11

I'm gonna hold out for more info on the windrider host but they definitely do look tempting! The detachment you mentioned with a sword n board WK and wraith blade with swords is like 950pts, still plenty of room for a bunch of kabalites in venoms and an airwing/ravager Spearhead!
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Xenos Specialist Detachments (aka Formations 2.0)   Wed Dec 05 2018, 22:07

Been informed the Psytronome only affects their base attacks so they only get 7 attacks each with the swords and strat... only a measly 140 attack with the combo!
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