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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 11:02

Now that the Yncarne can start on the board I've been wondering about ways to take advantage of this; surrounding him with full sized Ynnari <Ulthwe> Guardians or <Biel Tan> Aspect Warriors to take advantage of the fearless & fnp aura he provides for one. Are there any better ways to take advantage of this change?
Id considered taking 10-20 Incubi around him with Drazhar in a none Ynnari detachment, that way the only part of PFP they lose out on is the reroll charges and gain Soulburst but Drazhar is too expensive for how little he provides even supporting Ynnari Incubi where his +1 to hit aura is actually useful.

Another thing I wondered about, if you put the Yncarne in an Auxiliary Detachment do you need to specify the detachments faction (Drukhari etc)? As the current wording says something to the effect of "if an Ynnari character is included in a Drukhari Harlequin Asuryani detachment they must be warlord". If you don't need to specify, can you take an Yncarne in a Auxiliary Detachment without it being your warlord?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 17:07

You can take it in an Aux, but it has to be your warlord. Doesnt matter what detachment it is.

I like it b.c now i can place it on the table, cast phoenix, now he acts as Yvarine and then able to move about like normal.

As far as to what to take?

Well the normal, CWE detachment of Farseer/Spirit or Warlock, Guardians and Shiny Spears.

Ynnari doesnt really work with DE, its more for CWE/Harlequins

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 17:47

My confusion comes from the wording that "If your army is Battleforged and the Warlord of your army is either Yvraine the Yncarne or the Visarch then you can include any of these models in a Drukhari, Craftworlds or Harlequin detachment". My reading of that is that if I want them in a detachment of any of the 3 Eldar races I have to make one of them warlord, but I can't find anywhere that says a detachment has to have a faction keyword? I've been playing it that the Yncarne must have a warlord trait from the BRB, but reading elsewhere on the forum people are arguing that the Yncarne could take a Craftworld or Harlequin trait so maybe I'd just do that.

Yeah I agree, it's much easier in a craftworld army to go Ynnari but as a deldar main I was hoping to create a nice deldar Ynnari list.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:03

BATTLE BROTHERS
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids, unless the Detachment in question is a Fortification Network. This has no effect on your
Army Faction.

You cant have it Ynnari or Aeldari, so you must pick a faction for it.


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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:10

But it has no other unit to be in common with as it's in a detachment on its own... I guess the argument is that since a detachment can't be based off Aeldari or Ynnari an Auxilliary detachment with the Yncarne in that doesn't give him Drukhari Craftworld or Harlequin as a faction keyword is not a battleforged detachment.

Has it been clarified anywhere else that Ynnari can only take WL traits from the BRB? I know they can't take Dark Eldar ones as they're keyword locked but Harlequin and Craft world traits seem available by RAW? Which is nuts since you could end up with a 3++ Yncarne (Fractal Storm) or rerolling 1s to hit wound and damage on his d6 damage attacks (Luck of the Laughing God).
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:23

Im trying to find the rules for Detachments and if you actually need the model to make it that detachment.

Im trying to see if you cant just say the Auxiliary is a CWE one and just say the Ynnari character is in that detachment.

So bide me some time

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Sat Dec 01 2018, 18:26; edited 1 time in total
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:26

Xenos 1 Index FAQ, they read exactly the same I just stopped before the bit about Urien & Co.


Last edited by Gizamaluke on Sat Dec 01 2018, 18:32; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:26

@Gizamaluke wrote:
Imperial armour Xenos 1 Index FAQ, they read exactly the same I just stopped before the bit about Urien & Co.

Re-read what i said, refresh

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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:30

Ok then, currently how Battle Brothers are worded, and how detachments/Traits are worded you can not have a Ynnari character as an Aux detachment while remaining a Battleforged Army.


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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 18:38

Oh really?? That sucks. Can you show me what brought you to that conclusion? Is it the lack of other units to grant a shared Keyword? Sorry for not refreshing was trying to cook dinner, keep up with other threads and feed my 5 month old son at the same time haha! It's an interesting conflict with the auxiliary detachment and Ynnari as their army reborn rule states they can be included in a detachment even if you're using Battle Brothers rules, since otherwise the Yncarne would not share a keyword other than Aeldari and Ynnari with anyone but Yvraine and Visarch. Which kinda answers the thing warlord traits since they don't have the Harlequin keyword even if added to the detachment. Craftworlds is being argued as fair game since the word craftworld isn't bold in the book.

I just want to be able to take the Yncarne with my deldar without throwing away obsessions relics and alliance of agony!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 19:13

Nothing in the BRB says you can or cant (from what i can find, tho i dont have my hard copy just the epub one on me, my hard cpoy is in my locker, will need to double check as my epub one is messed up alittle), but in the codex it says you have to have a model with the trait in order to count that that detachment detachment.

Example: CWE "as long as every unit in this detachment is from the same craftworld" And Ynnari units can not gain the traits, but they dont break the traits either.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 19:34

What do you mean by Trait? Obsession/Attributes?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 20:34

Yes, it is common to call obsessions/craftwords traits, as Tyranids are Fleet, Orks are Clans, etc.. it is a word used to describe the traits on the sub factions abilities without saying every different name of them all.

So to be a Kabal detachment you need all units in the detachment to be <Kabal> (aka the same <trait>).

But reading DE it is worded completely differently than CWE, so IDK if DE can have a detachment with any DE models. Thats the important question.

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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 20:52

The traits don't have much bearing on Ynnari as the detachments are made using "Asuryani Drukhari Harlequin" keywords, the <Traits> only matter for stratagems and relics really in an Ynnari detachment.
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:04

No, they matter for battleforge too.

You must also have a trait picked otherwise its not a legal detachment as you cant have Drukhari as Ynnari b.c Drukhari goes away, then without traits or Drukhari keyword there is no Battle Brothers rules (If that makes since).

Im not saying you cant have <Drukhari> i'm saying as soon as you put in Ynnari it turns to <Ynnari> and battle brother says Ynnari isnt a good enough keyword to be battleforge.

But b.c there is no actual DE units (to gain traits), you cant make that detachment stay as a DE one.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:23

Ynnari is an additional keyword it doesn't replace any other keyword, it's just not suitable to make a list battleforged (or you could mix the four eldar factions in one detachment) so a craftworld guardian  unit in an Ynnari detachment would have the faction keywords;
Aeldari, Asuryani, Warhost, Ynnari, <Craftworld>.  The rules of Army Reborn say they lose Battle Focus and Craftworld Attributes. The detachment itself is built from Asuryani as the lowest common acceptable faction keyword.

So in light of the fact the rules for Army Reborn give the Yncarne & Co and exception to the Battle Brothers rule, that means he can go in an Auxiliary Detachment on his own? Since he doesn't require any other faction keyword. There's no way to make the detachment a craftworld one except by saying that's what it is (which there is no rule for or against) and the warlord trait is contentious as it comes down to one word in the craftworld codex not being in bold and the inclusion of warlord traits and relics in the FAQ rules of Army Reborn.
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:35

I'd say that you can run the Yncarne in an auxiliary detachment, the same way that you could run Corsairs as single unit aux detachments before they got errata'd... I'm just not sure why you'd want to, to be honest.

Of course, the real answer is that the Ynnari's rules are kind of a mess and they badly need a rework from the ground up.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:40

@Burnage wrote:
I'd say that you can run the Yncarne in an auxiliary detachment, the same way that you could run Corsairs as single unit aux detachments before they got errata'd... I'm just not sure why you'd want to, to be honest.

Of course, the real answer is that the Ynnari's rules are kind of a mess and they badly need a rework from the ground up.

Because I really really like the model but don't like Ynnari as a faction so I want to run it on its own. The main downside like I've said is it takes away the Archon Warlord trait and free relic but I can make do without it I guess. Just means the hes really costing 2cp with the necessary relic purchase. I wondered if I had found a loophole to get out of giving him a warlord trait since an Auxiliary Detachment wouldn't be Drukhari Craftworld or Harlequin, so he doesn't need to take a warlord trait. My reading of it was that the first half of the Army Reborn rules were for including them in one of the 3 types of eldar detachment with the caveat that your army is battle forged and an Ynnari character is the warlord. Well he's not in an eldar detachment (since Army reborn lets him ignore Battle Brothers and he doesn't have any of the 3 keywords needed to trigger the first half of the rule) so there's no need for him to be warlord.


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:46

Oh thats right for some reaon i thought the faq said they change it o, but it stayed as gained, idk what i was thinking.

The whole Ynnari thing is so messed up

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 21:54

@amishprn86 wrote:
Oh thats right for some reaon i thought the faq said they change it o, but it stayed as gained, idk what i was thinking.

The whole Ynnari thing is so messed up

That it is, that's why I don't play them but I really want to use the model. To clarify my logic on this whole thing is;

Am I trying to put the Yncarne in a Drukhari, Asuryani or Harlequin detachment?

No, therefore I ignore the first half of Army Reborn (Must be Battle Forged and be Warlord).

Can he go in an Auxiliary Detachment?

Yes, since he ignores Battle Brother rules for being in a detachment he can go in an Auxiliary Detachment using Aeldari and Ynnari keywords.

Leaving me with an Yncarne costing me -1cp on his own in a detachment. It definitely needs clarifying because it's clear as mud right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 22:02

But you cant ignore BB rules, its a core rule now, Ynnari and Aeldari cant be the only faction rules, the Ynnari rules dont say ignore BB rules.

I still dont think you can play it unless you declare the detachment as a CWE/DE/Quins one and idk if you can do that.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2018, 22:20

Turn 1 Yncarne Screen10


"They may be included in the detachment even if you are using Battle Brother rules." That part is there because otherwise they would break battle brother rules in any kind of detachment, craftworld or auxiliary. That's what I mean by ignore Battle Brothers
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2018, 01:06

But im saying by themselves they dont break the BB rule, that it is saying they can be mixed in detachments, like if you could mix DE and CWE into the same detachment.

But thats how i read it, play it how you want, if someone questions it talk it over with them, if you are going to a tournament ask the TO.

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PostSubject: Re: Turn 1 Yncarne   Turn 1 Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2018, 14:10

Yeah they don't break BB rule as their Army Reborn rule says they can still be included, thereby ignoring the issue of only have Aeldari and Ynnari tags (which BB doesn't allow as the common faction keyword in a detachment).
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