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 Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine

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Platinumtoad
Slave
Platinumtoad

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Join date : 2018-04-05

Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine Empty
PostSubject: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2018, 09:46

Hi, this post includes some highlights of keywords in the rules/FAQ in uppercase; it also contains some of my own comments/interpretations of the rules in [ ].

If your army is Battle-forged, all <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT> and <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> units
[implying you can chose for each unit]
in a DRUKHARI Detachment GAIN a Drukhari Obsession, so long as every other unit in their Detachment is from the same Kabal,
[implying you can have 2 diffrent kabals w/o the obsession ability]
Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven (if you include a mix of <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT> and/or <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> units in the same Detachment, none of those units gain an obsession).
[States it in plain text here, i would say.]
Note that for this purpose, Lelith Hesperax is a <WYCH CULT> unit and Urien Rakarth is a <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> unit.

The cheese I'm going for here is can i gain the Flayed Skull KEYWORD without the ability "SLAY FROM THE SKIES" enabling me to grab Famed Savagery for my Warlord and PotDC out a writ on the other Archon?

The even cheesier part I'm reaching for is doing the same thing in a Ynnari detachment:

The Detachment is STILL CONSIDERED to be a Craftworlds,
Harlequins or Drukhari Detachment, and so can use
Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Stratagems,
Warlord Traits and Relics respectively. Note that these
units will not, however, gain any of the Detachment
abilities
[This implies you can still take a Kabal for relics/traits w/o gaining the obsession ability.]
listed in their respective codexes (such as The
Path of War, Craftworld Attributes, Masque Forms,
Drukhari OBSESSIONS, etc.). [IE it's the obsession that's limited not the Kabals.]

The list I'm going for is:

++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [13 PL, 250pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ [13 PL, 250pts] +

Avatar of Khaine [13 PL, 250pts]

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [42 PL, 817pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Ynnari

+ HQ [22 PL, 457pts] +

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 3. Enhance/Drain, Shuriken Pistol

The Yncarne [17 PL, 337pts]: Ancestors' Grace, Word of the Phoenix

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Elites [20 PL, 360pts] +

Wraithblades [20 PL, 360pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield [128pts], 8x Wraithblade [232pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [52 PL, 933pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [6 PL, 81pts] +

Court of the Archon [6 PL, 81pts]: Sslyth [2 PL, 27pts], Sslyth [2 PL, 27pts], Sslyth [2 PL, 27pts]

Detachment Attribute: Ynnari

Prizes from the Dark City (1 Relic)

+ HQ [15 PL, 322pts] +

The Visarch [7 PL, 141pts]

Archon (KotFS) [4 PL, 89pts]: Blast Pistol [10pts], Famed Savagery, Huskblade [6pts], Phantasm Grenade Launcher [3pts], The Djin Blade, Warlord (Archon)

Archon(KotBH) [4 PL, 92pts]: Blaster [17pts], Phantasm Grenade Launcher [3pts], Venom Blade [2pts], Writ of the Living Muse

+ Troops [6 PL, 90pts] +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 30pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior [24pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 30pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior [24pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 30pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior [24pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

+ Heavy Support [21 PL, 375pts] +

Ravager (KotBH) [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts]

Ravager (KotBH) [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts]

Ravager (KotBH) [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts], Disintegrator cannon [15pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 65pts] +

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon [10pts], Twin splinter rifle


++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

If this is a valid interpretation of the rules I'll have 7CP!

I'll Webway Strike the Wraithblades, putting them down where needed close to both of the avatars, (The writ Ravagers will drop something for Yncarn to come down.) most of the rest will deploy normally (might put 1-2 ravagers with screaming jets) and screen with the Kabalites.

The Slyths will protect the Warlord Archon from the wounds he might get from the Djin blade and other wounds inflicted by choosing to use his 5+ instead of the 2++ until all three Slyths are dead forcing him to use the 2++. Plan is to get to a enemy character ASAP kill it with 8A S5 -3 D3 and using SOUL-TRAP each round snowballing him further. Keeping all melee units 6" from Yncarn all the time for 6+++.

I have no idea if it works good; if it's even legal.
I just made it up after seeing the denial of Avatar of Khaine in Ynnari lists was changed to Detachment instead of Army.

So I'm looking for some good rulings of my interpretations and also suggestions for the list, all melee should have some x++ save and being close to Yncarn gives those without their own x+++ a 6+++. The vehicles will probably be dead at r2 or r3 due to no x+++.
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Count Adhemar
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Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2018, 10:52

@Platinumtoad wrote:
The cheese I'm going for here is can i gain the Flayed Skull KEYWORD without the ability "SLAY FROM THE SKIES" enabling me to grab Famed Savagery for my Warlord and PotDC out a writ on the other Archon?

Yes, warlord traits and relics don't require the entire detachment to be of that particular kabal/cult etc so you could mix models from different kabals within a detachment but they just won't get any obsessions.

Quote :
The even cheesier part I'm reaching for is doing the same thing in a Ynnari detachment:

The Detachment is STILL CONSIDERED to be a Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Detachment, and so can use Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics respectively. Note that these units will not, however, gain any of the Detachment abilities [This implies you can still take a Kabal for relics/traits w/o gaining the obsession ability.] listed in their respective codexes (such as The Path of War, Craftworld Attributes, Masque Forms, Drukhari OBSESSIONS, etc.). [IE it's the obsession that's limited not the Kabals.]

You can do that with the relic as the latest round of FAQ's confirmed that you can use Prizes from the Dark City in a Ynnari detachment. Unfortunately you can't get a warlord trait as your warlord has to be Yvraine, the Yncarne or the Visarch and they can only take one of the traits from the core rules.

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amorrowlyday
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Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2018, 12:33

and FYI nothing you've pointed out is particularly cheesy.
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Platinumtoad
Slave
Platinumtoad

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PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 06 2018, 07:47

@amorrowlyday wrote:
and FYI nothing you've pointed out is particularly cheesy.
Oh goodie, I'm just really anxious so i pointed out potential cheese to avoid beeing flamed.
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Platinumtoad
Slave
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 06 2018, 07:55



You can do that with the relic as the latest round of FAQ's confirmed that you can use Prizes from the Dark City in a Ynnari detachment. Unfortunately you can't get a warlord trait as your warlord has to be Yvraine, the Yncarne or the Visarch and they can only take one of the traits from the core rules.[/quote]

Damn, missed the first sentence in the first paragraph of the Errata... Was too focused on the second part...
Then this list is down the drain.

Thanks for clarifying!
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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2018, 01:56

If you take a mixed Battalion
Can you take a separate air wing +1 cp and get an obsession with that for your flyers?
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Lord Asvaldir
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Lord Asvaldir

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Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2018, 12:50

I don't see any reason why you couldn't. Each detachment can have a different keyword so shouldn't be an issue.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2018, 14:20

I'm really not sure I see WHY you would do this though.
It looks perfectly fine as army building rules go, but I don't see what benefit you get other than being able to have a different Archon use a different Kabal's abilities within the same Detachment.
As I understand it, that would make the Detachment weaker.
Not only would the Detachment lose out on having an Obsession, but if for example only one of the Archons is not the same Kabal as the rest of teh Detachment, then his aura abilities won't work on units from a different <KABAL>.
If you've got the two HQ choices sorted with one Archon and the Visarch, why not just take your second Archon in an Auxilary (or Patrol) so that he can be his own Kabal, and that way allow the main Detachment to have an Obsession?
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine   Dual Kabals w/o traits in one detatchment? 2k Ynnari Asssault list+Avatar of Khaine I_icon_minitime

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