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 Ynnari and Dark Eldar

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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Fri Sep 07 2018, 13:49

Hopefully this is in the right place. Was just wanting to see how people would feel about limiting the ynarri interaction with the dark eldar. In some NOVA lists I've seen Ynnari armies using covens and black heart as allies and feel like this should not be able to happen. The covens have already been barred from inclusion in Ynnari detachments so I feel the fact they can be allied in with no problems a major oversight. And in regards to black heart, it is very fluff breaking to me that any black heart kabalites would be aiding the Ynnari given that Vect has stated his distaste for them.

What do guys think?
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Fri Sep 07 2018, 15:31

I think the Ynnari need to either be removed from the game or remade from the ground up.

I don't mind seeing Ynnari with Covens, since in the fluff there is (or was) at least one Coven which is very heavily pro-Ynnead. Black Heart alongside them is a bit weird, though.


Last edited by Burnage on Sun Sep 09 2018, 17:45; edited 1 time in total
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Fri Sep 07 2018, 17:05

It matters more to me from a game balance or rules design perspective than fluff... I love my fluff, but it's background material meant to create some fun for us to play with in our gameplay, otherwise we'd just push around less impressive or interesting plastic figures.

Desperate times can call for desperate measures, and we already know that as fractious as they are there are always some circumstances under which the Aeldari may choose to fight together.

Vect may have no love for the Ynnari but he's a ruthless pragmatist - or perhaps your Dracon is disobeying orders for some self-serving reason...
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sat Sep 08 2018, 04:48

The addition of the Ynnari faction to the game was one of the biggest design mistakes of modern GW. In the game there has not been a single rules release that hasn't impacted them negatively and they are still a mandatory take for any Eldar player looking to win in competitive play. In the story they are absolutely awful. Granted they have single-handedly ruined the lore for my own armies so I have an enormous axe to grind but GW clearly things their backstory is awful too as they've backpedaled it in every single Eldar release since 8th launched.

I sincerely hope they get retconned, or at least nerfed into irrelevancy.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sat Sep 08 2018, 17:41

@TeenageAngst wrote:
The addition of the Ynnari faction to the game was one of the biggest design mistakes of modern GW. In the game there has not been a single rules release that hasn't impacted them negatively and they are still a mandatory take for any Eldar player looking to win in competitive play. In the story they are absolutely awful. Granted they have single-handedly ruined the lore for my own armies so I have an enormous axe to grind but GW clearly things their backstory is awful too as they've backpedaled it in every single Eldar release since 8th launched.

I sincerely hope they get retconned, or at least nerfed into irrelevancy.

Kinda agree.

I really wish it was just a buff to units with 7" instead of a 2nd phase. Or gain a token for each unit that dies then you can spend X amount of tokens for a 2nd phase but hten you can make them cost more tokens depending on the phase you want.


Move twice 2 token
+1 cast 1 token, +2 cast 3 token
Shoot twice 3 tokens
Melee twice 3 tokens
Gain D3 wound back 1 token


The buffs could be something as simple as, +1 Strength, Attack, Toughness for the rest of the turn.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sat Sep 08 2018, 17:59

It's hardly the first time when competitive play gives birth to unholy monstrosities from the terms of lore. I still fondly remember demon-summoning Eldar from 6th.

That said, I simply prefer to wait until GW release a codex for Ynnari, as currently their rules are really found in erratas, rather than the actual index, and it is due to this that they are quite a mess first and foremost. They were this thing that emerged at the end of 7th and have been tweaked and changed around throughout the entirety of 8th, and I doubt it'll change until a proper codex release.

Now, a codex Ynnari release might be the right time to update some of the venerable sculpts that the Eldar have, with perhaps some Ynnari-unique variations, as currently the Ynnari themselves are three models, some rules and then whatever translates over from Craftworlds and Drukhari codexes.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sat Sep 08 2018, 18:52

Ynnari might not get a codex tho, that is a possibility, GW has avoided the question everytime.

I personally think they will (its another book they can make money on), but again they might not.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sat Sep 08 2018, 20:40

I'm not sure if GW even knows what to do with Ynnari now. The Ynnari appeared to be a corporate decision based around 7th edition which made it easy to mix and match the Eldar units from all factions. But in 8th edition you can already do that and this edition promotes individual detachments working together instead of having one faction-spanning blob.

On top of that, Ynnari didn't exactly have the greatest fluff, nor did they have a strong presence in the fluff overall. A Ynnari Codex would resemble more a supplement, because why would they re-print the rules of all Eldar factions in one book. I wouldn't be surprised if they fade out eventually, but if the right people work on this Codex it could actually turn out fun.

My personal dream would be having Ynnari and GW Corsairs in an shared "Eldar Outcasts" book. The Ynnari could be a fun if they allowed and further promoted synergies between the Eldar factions. In return, Streangth from Death should be a stratagem and their faction rules shouldn't be as strong.

However, I would love fielding Fire Dragons in Raiders or Dire Avengers in Star Weavers. Or fielding Incubi with Troupe Master who give them re-roll their wounds. Or fielding a frankenstein army that is composed of Wraith units and Grotesques.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sun Sep 09 2018, 00:36

Ynnari are being talked about the same way Squats were talked about in 2nd edition.

"Oh that codex is coming."

"Yeah we're still working on that codex."

"No, all the codexes have been announced."

And here we are.

If I was a betting man I'd say Ynnari will probably be shoved into some campaign book where you can get their updated rules without having to reference 20 different FAQ documents, maybe include alternate rules for a unit or two more, but that's probably it. The only reason I don't think they're going to be axed completely is they have brand new sculpts and the quality of those sculpts is pretty good and sell pretty well. Granted most of those sales are either to tourney players or people looking for Autarch/Farseer/Succubus/Daemon conversions. I'm actually shocked they weren't shoehorned into the Harlequins codex.

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sun Sep 09 2018, 17:15

I think of them more like experiment of GW. Like, could we create new faction rules to make old models playable? In my opinion - they have failed. At the start i was like ''wow, those Ynnari are bad ass'', but now... meh

Cool miniatures though. Glad to have them in my collection


nice idea with counters, amishprn86 Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Sun Sep 09 2018, 19:29

Ynnari was an attempt to add a unifying “Inquisition” type faction to the Eldar factions, so I can see them both popping up in any of these boxes GW does now, whether a board game or a kill team set. The Rogue Trader box in particular is a good example with its two mini-codices.

Would be a fast and effective way to update both factions without sinking too much into them. The inquisition portion could even utilize some of the Sisters models they are making.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Tue Sep 11 2018, 00:44

I still think the rumored Wraithlord scale model will probably be part of an Ynnari build out, beyond and until then I can't see a feasible way to include them in my army in a way that doesn't preclude more meaningful choices.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Fri Sep 14 2018, 18:08

They should just scrap Ynnari in its current state and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari and Dark Eldar    Fri Sep 14 2018, 21:11

@HERO wrote:
They should just scrap Ynnari in its current state and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up.


I agree with the first half of this statement.

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