HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share
 

 More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Ubernoob1
Kabalite Warrior
Ubernoob1

Posts : 150
Join date : 2013-04-20
Location : Newport News, Virginia

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 00:55

Hello. My question(s) revolve around the "do you need a black heart detachment to use Agents of Vect" question. I am aware it was discussed quite a lot in the following thread here:

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t17821-gw-finally-said-aov-stratagem-is-for-bh-only?highlight=stratagem

However I have a follow up question rather than rehashing the same one: At the NOVA tournament just recently, Nick Nanavati fielded a list that included one Black Heart auxiliary detachment of 5 kabalite warriors. According to the codex, an auxiliary detachment does not qualify you to use a factions stratagems. Now, he also had a prophets of flesh detachment, but by him having that black heart auxiliary I assume he was going by the facebook "ruling" that a black heart detachment is required to use the stratagem.

So the question is this: Does the codex's mentioning of auxiliary detachments not qualifying for a factions stratagems mean that it should also not qualify for a sub-faction's specific?

This of course assumes we can find any bit of logic in this whole question, since the same list also included Ynnari with Saim-Hann shining spears leading me to believe he also used the Saim-Hann stratagem even without a Saim-Hann detachment...*sigh*
Back to top Go down
Squidmaster
Incubi
Squidmaster

Posts : 1991
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 13:03

If it doesn't apply for Stratagems, it doesn't apply for ANY Stratagems, sub-faction or otherwise.

But I do have to say, I put no stock in posts on Facebook being official. its nice when they clrify things and they can be reasonably taken, but if they're not in an FAQ I don't think they can be taken as granted considering not everyone will be able to find that specific ruling.


Last edited by Squidmaster on Thu Sep 06 2018, 13:07; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7290
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 13:05

I believe NOVA specifically ruled that this was legal. Whether they were right in a RAW sense is another matter entirely...

_________________
More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Squidmaster
Incubi
Squidmaster

Posts : 1991
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 13:07

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I believe NOVA specifically ruled that this was legal. Whether they were right in a RAW sense is another matter entirely...

I'd be very interested to hear NOVA's specific ruling on this, because I would not have allowed it. its very specifically against the rules.
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7290
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 13:33

It's certainly against RAI but the RAW issue still hasn't been resolved IMO. I know what GW wants the rules to do but that's not what they actually do.

_________________
More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Squidmaster
Incubi
Squidmaster

Posts : 1991
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 13:52

I think I worked it out after some chats.

NOVA fell down on the concept that a few have - that having a Drukhari Detachment gives you access to ALL of the Stratagems. The Prophets Of Flesh Detachment allowed access to ALL of them, you just cant use most because they target <KABAL/CULT/COVEN>. Basically, they used the same ruling that have BH doesn't actually matter because it doesn't target anything.
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 869
Join date : 2015-12-21

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 21:32

This is something that really needs to be dealt with in a FAQ.

RAW each Codex has a line similar to this:
"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Drukhari Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown here..."

Subfaction Stratagems are part of the list of Stratagems, so RAW appear to be unlocked.

GW have given more than a few hints that they want a Black Heart detachment to unlock Agents of Vect. So it's fair to say that is so clearly their intent that it has become effectively RAW. However, that opens up more questions that are not answered:
1) Does a Black Heart detachment include an Auxiliary Support Detachment?
2) Is this Agents of Vect only, or does it apply to other subfaction detachments?
3) [This one is a little silly] Do Mercenaries in a detachment deny you access to subfaction Stratagems, as they only offer an exemption for Obsessions?

I would like to see a clarification that subfaction detachments are unlocked by a detachment of that subfaction (non-auxiliary support only). However, this hasn't happened, so there are some slightly silly things going on as a result.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

Posts : 1834
Join date : 2016-08-29

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2018, 22:03

I'm thinking in the FAQ they will specify that Agents of Vect is usable as long as you have a Black Heart unit alive on the board regardless of detachment. Basically an incentive to bring more than a token Kabalite Warrior squad while also not invoking a special case scenario. Mostly because special case scenarios are icky.

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 869
Join date : 2015-12-21

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2018, 05:57

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I'm thinking in the FAQ they will specify that Agents of Vect is usable as long as you have a Black Heart unit alive on the board regardless of detachment.
Personally, I would make it Black Heart Archon on the board, but unit mostly works too.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7290
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2018, 07:20

It should have been a Black Heart Warlord Trait. Means you must have a BH detachment AND it keeps it out of the hands of anyone who just wants to take a minimum detachment of DE just to get it unless they sacrifice having their 'main' faction's warlord traits.

_________________
More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Endstation
Slave
Endstation

Posts : 24
Join date : 2017-04-30
Location : Dortmund

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29 2018, 08:02

I dont get it: They don't clarify in the stratagem text that you need a pure black heart detachment to unlock the stratagem AoV.


The weird thing, as i understand the new Q&A-part:
They confirm the Nova Ruling on Nicks question (with the additional condition, that a Black Heart Unit must be on the battlefield:

Q: If the only Kabal of the Black Heart unit in my battle-forged army is in an Auxiliary Support Detachment, but my army includes another Drukhari Detachment that is not an Auxiliary Support Detachment, can I still use the Agents of Vect Stratagem?
A: Yes, so long as the Kabal of the Black Heart unit is on the battlefield.


If you wouldn't need a pure Black Hearth Detachment to be able to use the stratagem, which is unlocked by the other non-black-heart detachment, the q&q would be without any sense.

so why didn't they adress all the other subfaction-specific stratagems (stygies fulgurite priests, saim-hann shining spears, ...)
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 869
Join date : 2015-12-21

More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 29 2018, 22:04

They are confirming that any non-auxiliary support detachment unlocks all stratagems in a Codex, including Agents of Vect.

Now that a Black Heart unit is required, it is no longer a special case where there is no focus for the unit, and works like pretty much any subfaction detachment. That also means Ynnari Shining Spears are still fine for using subfaction stratagems.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions Empty
PostSubject: Re: More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions   More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
More Agents of Vect/Black Heart detachment Questions
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Rules: Queries & Questions
-
Jump to: