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 Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models

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albions-angel
Hellion
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PostSubject: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10 2018, 22:44

Hi all,

So it seems I am in a state of perpetual model building/painting. Ive had 2 half built boxes of Kabalites, a razorwing jetfighter, a talos/chronos (not yet built) and a box of scourge (also not yet built). I got them when we got our model update some 2 editions ago...

Now I find myself with friends that actually play, and Id like to get an army together. It doesnt need to be fantastic, but something playable and passable, without having to buy too much more.

I know I need an HQ, and 2 Raiders, can you suggest 2 more kits (probably ravager and.... something?) that will round me out?

Also, what wargear should I be equipping things with? Like I said, I got these back in 6th ed. And the last time I read a rules book was with the OLD army of 4th ed. Are dark lances still king? What do I equip my HQ with? Other wargear?
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wormfromhell
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wormfromhell

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Join date : 2017-01-03
Location : Australia, the land of the $85 Ravager.

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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 00:22

depends how you want to run your army- There are so many choices! if you want to field the coven, i would suggest prophets of flesh, so you would need a heavy, and wracks or gross are also a great coven choice. As far as kabal goes, you can field raiders or venoms, and ravagers and razor wings are also great. For scourge, I would suggest magnetising, it is surprisingly easy. And while you are at it, I would magnetise as much as you can, as you can get a decent set of 200 magnets for ~$5 on eBay. Magnetization helps future proof your army, and allows for more choice without having to buy more models.

If you like cult, you could get some, and reavers and wyches are their best units. With he's you cant really go wrong, as there are so few choices, but I would steer clear of the named ones as they are overpriced unless you are going for a specific build. If you want more specific advice, such as weapons, choosing between similar units, I would check out the tactics section of the forum.

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 00:47

It seems like you have more kabal than coven (and no real coven.)

If you can find it, the getting started 2016 box (with warriors, archon, and raider) would be your best buy. Kabal's are very solid, and that with a RWJF is pretty solid to start with.

From there, another plane! or Ravagers.... and see how you like them. Want more CC goodness, then maybe cults are for you!

Love the look on your oponents face when you manage to stay alive on your archon's last wound by constantly rolling a 6? Then amp it up with Coven!
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 05:33

I advice you start kill team with your friends. I thinks thats really great entry point to learn basic rules and capabilities of statline.

Then small addition for legal patrol detacment. Then - anything else.

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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 08:41

Ok, thats helped a little. I guess longer term, because I just like Kabalites, I would be going for one of the bigger detachments of kabalites, with a small detachment of coven? It sounds like Wyches are good again though? Are they back to being vehicle destroyers? Are they now mostly for getting in close to Tau Fireteams and other relatively squishy ranged units and slicing?

What IS a kill team? I keep seeing the term, but I cant find out whats legal and whats not. I assume its just a very small detachment? 1HQ and no more than 2 troops or a troop and an elite?

Are my thoughts worth following? Mostly Kabal, a Haemie with a talos and a chronos, maybe some Grots? A raider with some wyches?
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 12:20

@albions-angel wrote:


What IS a kill team? I keep seeing the term, but I cant find out whats legal and whats not. I assume its just a very small detachment? 1HQ and no more than 2 troops or a troop and an elite?


https://warhammer40000.com/kill-team/ is a new, seperate game. It uses small teams of models, generally between 3-20, and is focused on skirmish combat. It uses the same models as 40k, although you can only use some (for us only wyches and kabalites), and has similar rules, except scaled down for the size of the game, It is a great place to start, and i am looking forward to playing it.

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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 15:34

Thanks Smile Turns out 8th changes a lot of things from what I am used to.

The new codex style is... odd? I have figured out what power level is, but Im confused by how points work with models now. It used to just tell you "if you swap this for this, it costs X points". Now it doesnt say that, and all the points are just in a table.

Which leads to questions like:

With the razorwing jet, if I want to swap the disintegrators for dark lances, do I just add 2x20 points to the model? Or because disintegrators cost 15 already, do I subtract 30 from the models points first?

In a more tactics based question, twinlinked rifles or cannon, disintegrator or DL?

Any tips on how I can make these decisions myself? Its been a long time since I last had to do that, and I no longer know whats worth the points cost. I know its situational, but a "if you are facing tanks, DL spam is still worth it on everything" or "never take agonisers, their points are never justified" would be helpful.
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 18:02

So points, while a little odd at first, are not too bad.

The RWJF has it's base cost. Nothing in that is included... so you then choose what weapons and pay that cost. If you want the lances, pay that on top of the base cost for the fighter etc.

Most ppl do not like splinter cannons. I often times add them on my fighters, as (1) that is how I have them modeled and (2) I do like the extra shots when in double tap range.

Internet lists are all about the disintegrators, and they are definitely good - but I personally prefer a mix. With blasters now basically short range lances, it's much easier to get your lance style shots in. A raider with two blasters in it (two squads of 5 man warriors) and a dissy on the raider tends to be my preferred set up. And the blaster have an effective range then of 32", which is not much different than if you took the lance.

As to tips, just really familiarizing yourself with the edition again, and the meta. Reading mathhammer blogs and, above all - get some games in!
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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 19:27

Wait, not even the default dissy and missiles arnt included in the RWJF cost? Or are you saying the dissy essentially costs zero when on a RWJF?
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 19:33

Nope.

So, lets make up some points.

Lets say the RWJF costs 100 Pts.

2 Dissies cost 12 pts, while 2 lances cost 20. (Please note - all of these points are purposefully wrong and only used for example sake)

So, a RWJF with 2 dissies would cost 112, while with two lances would cost 120. Your missiles and cannon are additional costs as well

Hope that helps
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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 19:46

Got it. And this applies to all models? The points cost is just for the model, essentially naked? Of course, most weapons cost 0 so its all good.

What did you mean the blaster has an effective range of 32"? Is it the speed difference between raiders and kabalites or something?
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models   Help cobbling together a decent army without starter set - already have some models I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 11 2018, 20:52

Yes, it applies to (most) all models. Some special characters will say in the back that their cost includes all weapons and war gear.

As to the blaster - range 18 + movement 14 is where I got that effective range from. That is before you factor in any kabal bonuses - flayed skull adds 3 to your movement and obsidian rose 6 to the range of your gun, so those bonuses could be tacked on too. TBH, I am pretty firmly a black heart guy, simply for the 6++ on my raiders and fighters
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