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Embers
Slave
Embers

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Join date : 2018-07-23

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PostSubject: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 23 2018, 11:02

Hey all, finally summed up the courage to register instead of lurking in the shadows Smile

I'd like to show you a list I've come up with after trudging through the forums. Id only need to purchase a couple of units to make this work, but before I got and start spending my hard earned souls, I wanna run it by you guys to see if you can see any major flaws. I'm not a tournament player, heck, I've only really played 3 games since getting back into 40K.

So...

Kabal Battalion - Poisoned Tounge

1 x Archon - Warlord (will use alliance of agony)
1 x Archon (Barebones, because I have to..)
1 x 10 Kabalites (1x Blaster, 1x Dark Lance)
1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x Venom (splinter cannon upgrade)
1 x Venom (Shockingly, another SC upgrade)
1 x 5 scourges (D.Lance x2, HL, Blaster)
1 x 5 scourges (SC x 2, Shredder, HL)
1 x Razorwing Jetfighter (Dissies)

Cult Outrider Detachment - Cult of Strife

1 x Lelith Hesperax (because I just like her OK..)
1 x 10 Wyches (razorflails, HG & Shardnet of course)
1 x 10 Helions (no upgrades, just to be annoying to whatever I'm fighting
3 x 3 Reavers (Heatlances and grav talons)

Coven Spearhead Detachment - Prophets of flesh

1 x Haemonculus
1 x Talos (Splinter cannons, razor flails. Fluff destroyer)
1 x Talso (heatlances, Macroscalpel x 2)
1 X Cronos

If im not mistaken (and as Im new, that is highly likely) should be around 1850pts and give me 14CP due to raiding force?

Fairly certain that with this amount of drops ill unlikely go first but my aim is to use the terrain in ways where I can jump their forces and make it difficult for them to pick a target.

So yeah, that's my list plan. Critique welcome
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 23 2018, 11:32

@Embers wrote:
I'd like to show you a list I've come up with after trudging through the forums. Id only need to purchase a couple of units to make this work, but before I got and start spending my hard earned souls, I wanna run it by you guys to see if you can see any major flaws. I'm not a tournament player, heck, I've only really played 3 games since getting back into 40K.
Copy that, will look for major flaws or really bad setups.

@Embers wrote:
1 x Archon - Warlord (will use alliance of agony)
1 x Archon (Barebones, because I have to..)
1 x 10 Kabalites (1x Blaster, 1x Dark Lance)
1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x Venom (splinter cannon upgrade)
1 x Venom (Shockingly, another SC upgrade)
1 x 5 scourges (D.Lance x2, HL, Blaster)
1 x 5 scourges (SC x 2, Shredder, HL)
1 x Razorwing Jetfighter (Dissies)
The things that leap out to me here are;

1. The footslogging Warrior squad is pretty "meh" to my mind. If your goal is that they're sitting on an objective in a backfield you're wasting points on the Blaster. The value of a back sitting squad like that is pretty negligible to my mind also, and it's a lot of points tied up in not really helping your otherwise fairly rush centered build.

2. The Archon isn't helping you much - at this stage your best bet with him is to have him running on foot after the Venoms to try to keep them in his bubble.

3. The mixed loadout on the Scourges (especially having 2x 36" range Heavy weapons in a squad with an 18" melta weapon...) seems questionable. What is your plan with these Scourges? I would suggest that you would benefit from focusing their goals a bit more. I'd rather see one squad with 4x Blasters and another with 4x Shredders and that's it - you'd have some very useful units, save some points, and have clear targets in mind. At the very least really consider the value of a blaster vs. a heat lance - I would suggest the Blaster is an inherently superior weapon.

@Embers wrote:
1 x Lelith Hesperax (because I just like her OK..)
1 x 10 Wyches (razorflails, HG & Shardnet of course)
1 x 10 Helions (no upgrades, just to be annoying to whatever I'm fighting
3 x 3 Reavers (Heatlances and grav talons)
Nothing wrong with liking Lelith - she's a pretty solid and affordable combat option.

1. As long as you're within Lelith's re-roll aura the razorflail is practically wasted points. I'd suggest either dropping it or buying an extra hydra gauntlet.

2. Footslogging wyches seems unwise, they massively benefit from having vehicles both to get them into combat while avoiding being shot but also to have transports that can assault in to absorb Overwatch for them.

@Embers wrote:
1 x Haemonculus
1 x Talos (Splinter cannons, razor flails. Fluff destroyer)
1 x Talso (heatlances, Macroscalpel x 2)
1 X Cronos
Not the biggest fan of the Cronos, but otherwise not bad. Would suggest that finding some points for an electrocorrosive whip would help out the Haem a touch.

@Embers wrote:
If im not mistaken (and as Im new, that is highly likely) should be around 1850pts and give me 14CP due to raiding force?
Not going to double check your points - but to get Raiding Force you need to be using Patrol detatchments, so your CP count should be 3 base +3 battalion +1 forSpearhead +1 for Vanguard = 8 CP

Hope some of that helps, and welcome to the boards,
Thor.

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New raiding force - Suggestions welcome L1RsnGX
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Embers
Slave
Embers

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 23 2018, 12:58

Ah thanks Thor, by the way in my haste to post my first message I completely failed to mention that there would be a cult raider with the wyches. Overlooked that.

As for the CP thanks I wasn't completely sure if it was 3 detachments to get the CP or if it was patrols only, so thanks for clarification.

Yeah I'll be honest, I thought the scourges might come up. My reasoning was 'well.. A bit of everything can't hurt' but it does look messy and I'll probably just go down the route you mentioned.

As for the cronos. I don't actually own one yet so I've never had an opinion on it, I just looked at the 'it can heal stuff!' and just seemed good. I could always just run 3 taloi.

Maybe I could get another raider for my footslogger kabalites and that should support them.

Thanks for the input 😊

Sent from Topic'it App
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Archon_91
Wych
Archon_91

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 23 2018, 23:25

The thing with the cronoa is it can only heal 1 wound per turn as it reads "of the cronos causes one or more wounds choose a Drukhari unit within 6 and heal 1 wound lost earlier int he battle" so to really make use of that you would need at least 3 that way each one has a chance to heal a wound ... I enjoy the cronos but it does take more than one. If you want to experiment on an anti-tank talos you could trade the heat lance for haywired blasters but that's just personal preference.
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Embers
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Embers

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 24 2018, 02:20

@Archon_91 wrote:
The thing with the cronoa is it can only heal 1 wound per turn as it reads "of the cronos causes one or more wounds choose a Drukhari unit within 6 and heal 1 wound lost earlier int he battle" so to really make use of that you would need at least 3 that way each one has a chance to heal a wound ... I enjoy the cronos but it does take more than one. If you want to experiment on an anti-tank talos you could trade the heat lance for haywired blasters but that's just personal preference.

Yeah, Im beginning to see it wouldn't be overly reliable to have just the one Cronos. Fair enough, 3 Taloi floating up the table would be more intimidating anyway, I havent played anyone with too many vehicles yet (maybe in the future..) as the only people ive played use Nids or Orks. I havent lost yet but the games have been relatively small.

The whole purpose of the list and your guys input, was I could create something that would feel fun to play, hence a fair bit of assault orientated units, and something I could take to a club to and play all kinds of armies somewhat competitively. Win or lose, Id like to feel Id give most people a run for their money.
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withershadow
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withershadow

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 24 2018, 03:03

Splinter cannons should never be on a Talos ever, because they are not an assault weapon, and does that one Talos have TWO razorflails? That’s pointless, you can only attack with one, so keep a scalpel.

I would not call this list competitive at all, much less “somewhat”, but if you’re just rolling dice and shooting the crap, it’ll be fine.

@Thor665 wrote:

Not going to double check your points - but to get Raiding Force you need to be using Patrol detatchments, so your CP count should be 3 base +3 battalion +1 forSpearhead +1 for Vanguard = 8 CP

Hope some of that helps, and welcome to the boards,
Thor.
Battalions give 5CPs as of March/April FAQ.
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Embers
Slave
Embers

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 24 2018, 03:26

@withershadow wrote:
Splinter cannons should never be on a Talos ever, because they are not an assault weapon, and does that one Talos have TWO razorflails? That’s pointless, you can only attack with one, so keep a scalpel.

I would not call this list competitive at all, much less “somewhat”, but if you’re just rolling dice and shooting the crap, it’ll be fine.


Fair enough, thanks for the input. Obviously, Im somewhat limited in the units I currently have, but is there any tweeks that I could make or any particular units I could get to improve it overall?
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Thor665
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Thor665

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 24 2018, 07:12

@withershadow wrote:
Battalions give 5CPs as of March/April FAQ.
Good note - my dyslexia really hates 3 and 5 for some reason.

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New raiding force - Suggestions welcome L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
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withershadow
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withershadow

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 24 2018, 13:57

@Embers wrote:
Hey all, finally summed up the courage to register instead of lurking in the shadows Smile

I'd like to show you a list I've come up with after trudging through the forums. Id only need to purchase a couple of units to make this work, but before I got and start spending my hard earned souls, I wanna run it by you guys to see if you can see any major flaws. I'm not a tournament player, heck, I've only really played 3 games since getting back into 40K.

So...

Kabal Battalion - Poisoned Tounge -why poison tongue? Based on your collection, flayed skull would work better.

1 x Archon - Warlord (will use alliance of agony) - armed with what?
1 x Archon (Barebones, because I have to..) - "barebones" can mean blast pistol and husk blade. Since you're not running Black Heart, you have a lot more options for your Archons. Your Warlord can have Hatred Eternal, Djinn blade and blast pistol for a murdering machine.

1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x 5 Kabalites (1x Blaster)
1 x Venom (splinter cannon upgrade)
1 x Venom (Shockingly, another SC upgrade)
1 x Razorwing Jetfighter (Dissies)
^ the above is good

1 x 10 Kabalites (1x Blaster, 1x Dark Lance) - this is a mostly useless unit, since it's on foot. for more competitive bend, you can make them 5-strong with a blaster, and put the savings towards another venom as above. So you would have 3 of the same unit for your battalion.

1 x 5 scourges (D.Lance x2, HL, Blaster)
1 x 5 scourges (SC x 2, Shredder, HL)
^These equipment load-outs are extremely bipolar. Are these just the models you have or can you change the weapons around?  I am not fond of heatlances or splinter cannons are simply a waste when you can just buy another scourge for the points if you want poison. If these are the only options you have available, I would recommend at least this:
1 x 5 scourges (D. Lance x2, SC x2) - ask opponent if you can count the SCs as dark lances
1 x 5 scourges (HL x2, blaster x2) - clip the little blades off the shredder to make another blaster.


Cult Outrider Detachment - Cult of Strife

1 x Lelith Hesperax (because I just like her OK..)
1 x 10 Wyches (razorflails, HG & Shardnet of course)
1 x 10 Helions (no upgrades, just to be annoying to whatever I'm fighting
3 x 3 Reavers (Heatlances and grav talons)
^no real issues here, although again I am not fond of heat lances, and if using reavers as throw-away tie-up units, I may consider not even giving them any upgrades except talons... but since you're not red grief, you will have opportunities to fire those guns. Hellions are sad, but hold on to them, I have hopes they will become like 11 points in chapter approved (they are in no way better than say a scourge or trueborn), so we can spam them like crazy.
Coven Spearhead Detachment - Prophets of flesh

1 x Haemonculus
1 x Talos (Splinter cannons, razor flails. Fluff destroyer)
1 x Talso (heatlances, Macroscalpel x 2)
1 X Cronos
^I am not fond of single-unit Talos, but let's roll with it I guess. Splinter cannons are not a good option because they aren't an assault weapon, so you can't advance and fire them (and then move again with fire and fade). Stinger pods are a good alternative. You will only want a single razor flail since you can only attack with one weapon, so retain the scalpel for heavier lifting. The "it" weapon for anti-vehicle Talos are the haywire blasters. You are saddled with way too many heat lances!
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Embers
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Embers

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 25 2018, 02:36

Awesome, thanks a bunch. Its given me much more of a direction to go forward with. Ill pick up another venom this weekend. I must have a heatlance fetish or something. I just see the -5AP on them and think 'yep, that will do nicely,' without considering the bigger picture.

So far, the couple people I've played with haven't been fussy about models being WYSIWYG so doing what you suggest with the scourges shouldn't be a problem.

Id love to get more Taloi to bulk out their units, but at the moment my funds dont stretch that far and i'm fond of both my kidneys haha, so maybe that's a future plan.

Overall, thanks again for looking at this for me, appreciated
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withershadow
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withershadow

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 25 2018, 19:40

I am hoping GW gives heat lances another once-over. They gave them a significant discount, but they are still not that great when you get a blaster for 5 more points. I think giving them re-roll to wound would be awesome.

Best of luck on your expansion!
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yellabelly
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yellabelly

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2018, 02:13

Looking at your list, I personally think you just need to play games with it. You will soon begin to streamline it naturally as you get a feel for what works and what doesn't, which units and loudouts suit your playstyle etc.
You can get help on list building and stuff, but I think your very much at the experimental stage with things and you clearly want a bit of everything in your list. Do that, try it all. After a few games I guarantee you'll be finding for yourself what's good and what's bad, what you like and what you don't. Especially if your gaming buddies aren't opposed to a little bit of proxy so you can "try before you buy"!

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Embers
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Embers

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PostSubject: Re: New raiding force - Suggestions welcome   New raiding force - Suggestions welcome I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2018, 02:38

@yellabelly wrote:
Looking at your list, I personally think you just need to play games with it. You will soon begin to streamline it naturally as you get a feel for what works and what doesn't, which units and loudouts suit your playstyle etc.
You can get help on list building and stuff, but I think your very much at the experimental stage with things and you clearly want a bit of everything in your list. Do that, try it all. After a few games I guarantee you'll be finding for yourself what's good and what's bad, what you like and what you don't. Especially if your gaming buddies aren't opposed to a little bit of proxy so you can "try before you buy"!


Will do Smile I have a game against some Tyranids this weekend, i'll let you know how it turns out
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