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 2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible

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Trueborn44
Kabalite Warrior
Trueborn44

Posts : 177
Join date : 2016-06-14

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PostSubject: 2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible   2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2018, 13:42

Blackheart Batallion+5CP

HQ

Archon, huskblade, WOTL, Labrynthine cunning, total: 76

Archon, huskblade, total: 76

Troops

X4 5 Kabalites, Blaster, venom, total: 448


Heavy Support

X3 Ravager, x3 Disintegrator cannon, total:375


Flyers

X2 Razorwing jetfighter, Disintegrator cannons, total: 270


Cult of red grief Outrider +1 CP

HQ

Succubus, blood Glaive, Blast pistol, Hyper-Swift reflexes,+2 mov, total: 60

Troops

15 Wyches, x2 Impaler, Razorflail, PGL, +1 strength, total: 137

Fast attack

X3 3 Reavers, +1 ATK/WS/T/Total: 171


Prophets of Flesh Spearhead +1 CP

HQ

Urien Rakarth, Diabolical soothsayer total: 90

Heavy Support

X3 Talos, x2 Macro, x2 Haywire, total: 297

Gt:2000

Starting CP: 8-10

Debated giving the Taloi chain flails so they can pull double duty as horde clear but have stuck with the Macros for now. Anyone have any preference? Leaning towards Chain flails for the sake of versatility, but the extra attack via the Macros is nice.

15 man Wyche unit will mostly start in webway, although against armies with a lot of assault they'll double as a screen alongside the Reavers if they don't have anything to tie down T1. Can change the strength bonus out for toughness if needs be, but if they're in reserve the hope is they won't be shot at all before arriving.

Otherwise, I'm a bit concerned that I might be starting with 8CP as I'm not sure this is enough to make full use of AOV. Thoughts?

Considering dropping 1 Wyche, the PGL and the Razorflail and swapping 1 of the Dissie Ravagers for a lance Ravager to deal with heavy armour. I have the Haywire Taloi that give me something against heavy tanks, although I think on average it's around 4 mortal wounds per round and the threat range is obviously a lot smaller.
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wormfromhell
Sybarite
wormfromhell

Posts : 326
Join date : 2017-01-03
Location : Australia, the land of the $85 Ravager.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible   2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 20 2018, 23:22

Nice list!

Definitely stay with the macros, someone did an analysis and iirc they are almost as good as the flails against hordes anyway. Also, stick with the disuse ravager, they are actually more effective against T8-9. for more cp, maybe change your cult detachment to a battalion, with three units of 5 wyches, two succubi, and 2 reaver units, I find that two reaver units is generally enough, but don't know how that would fit points wise.

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Trueborn44
Kabalite Warrior
Trueborn44

Posts : 177
Join date : 2016-06-14

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible   2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 21 2018, 16:48

Interesting idea on the batallion for the Wyches! My only issue is that it kinda defeats the purpose of the Wyche unit, as it's mostly there for the sake of using the webway portal, but is still able to act as a screen/ backfield unit if necessary. If I was to follow your advice though I could do it really simply by dropping the Pgl from the Wyche unit, splitting them in to 5 man units and then dropping 1 unit of Reavers, as that affords you 60 for the 2nd Succubus.

I'll play test both, but I came up with something I'm a bit happier with, as it allows me to keep things fairly similar, mechanise some of the Wyches and get the batallion.

Blackheart Batallion+5CP

HQ

Archon, Agoniser, WOTL, Labrynthine cunning, total: 74

Archon, huskblade, total: 76

Troops

X3 5 Kabalites, Blaster, venom, total: 336

Heavy Support

X3 Ravager, x3 Disintegrator cannon, total:375

Flyers

X2 Razorwing jetfighter, Disintegrator cannons, total: 270


Cult of red grief Battalion +5 CP

HQ

Succubus, blood Glaive, Blast pistol, Hyper-Swift reflexes,+2 mov, total: 60

Succubus, Archite Glaive, Splinter pistol, +2 mov, total: 50

Troops

10 Wyches, x3 Impaler, +1 str, total: 95

X2 5 Wyches, Agoniser, Impaler,+1 atk/ws, total:98
Dissie Raider, total: 80

Fast attack

X2 3 Reavers, +1 Ld/T/Total: 114


Prophets of Flesh Spearhead +1 CP

HQ
Haemonculus, Diabolical soothsayer total: 75

Heavy Support

X3 Talos, x2 Macro, x2 Haywire, total: 297

Gt:2000

Starting CP: 13-16

Basically drops 1 unit of Kabalites, a unit of Reavers, Urien for a Haeme (not convinced the strength buff from Urien is necessary on Talos anyway) and a mixture of upgrades from the previous list. The Wyche Raider can double as the 3rd unit of Reavers anyway turn 1, charging in to problem targets and the 10 man squad will webway in most times like the 15 man unit in the previous list. Not entirely sure on drugs, may change the strength bonus from the 10 man squad out for attacks, as it's probably more effective against a wider range of targets with hyperstim being used. What do you think?
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Frowny
Hellion
Frowny

Posts : 54
Join date : 2017-08-27

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible   2000 Alliance of Agony- As balanced as possible I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 22 2018, 18:07

I think the math on flails is less bad than people seem to think.


Against
t3 5+ Chain flails =~4.3 dmg past saves
t3 5+ Macroscaples= ~3.3 dmg past saves. That's a pretty noticeable ~30% improvement.

Against targets where you are preferring the scalples, the marginal extra 1 is only giving you a 6th attack, so you can always just use the 5 attacks. Thats only a ~20% improvement.

The math favors it even more against units with only a 6+ (cultists, gaunts, boyz) or anything that relies on an invul (harlequins, genestealers, demons, wyches) Its about even against t3 4+, and as noted, indeed worse against marines or tougher targets, but it isn't a completely forgone conclusion that one is better

You might say, well, 'I don't want them fighting cultists anyway', which is fair, but you don't always get to choose your engagements perfectly like that. Is a 20% loss against ideal targets offset by a ~33% gain against its less favored targets? Tougher models are certainly more prevalent than chaff, at least where I play, so there is that. But it is worth considering.
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