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 1250p cabal list, fast help needed

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Chris9294
Slave
Chris9294

Posts : 3
Join date : 2018-07-19

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PostSubject: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2018, 08:56

Hi, I'm new to Warhammer and today I'm gonna play my first 40k game with the following list against AdMech. Can you please give me any hints and advice how to play it and what i could swap!

Random Raiders (1249)

Flayed Skull Battalion 748 +5 CP

Archon (76)
Archon + Blaster (93)
3 x 5 Kab. Warriors + Blaster (141)
RWJF + Cannon (145)
4 x Cannon Venoms (300)

Black Heart Spearhead (494) + 1CP

Archon + Agoniser, WL, Lab. Cunning & Writ (74)
3 x Triple Lance Ravagers (420)
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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

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Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

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PostSubject: Re: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2018, 10:36

Internet consensus is that disintigrator ravager are superior to lance ravager but I can't conform that due to the lack of ravager in my collection.

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Chris9294
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Chris9294

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PostSubject: Re: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2018, 11:09

Thanks for the hint, i already read about that, but im playing against an admech list with a lot of vehicles with 6 or 7 toughness, so i guess in this case dark lances are better cause of the 8 strenght over the 5
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

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Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2018, 15:11

@Chris9294 wrote:
Archon (76)
Archon + Blaster (93)
3 x 5 Kab. Warriors + Blaster (141)
RWJF + Cannon (145)
4 x Cannon Venoms (300)
I would take Dissie Raiders any day over Cannon Venoms - better anti-tank and better anti-infantry most of the time as well.
I don't think the s.cannon is a worthwhile upgrade particularly in general also, the TL s.rifle is almost as good and is substantially cheaper.

@Chris9294 wrote:
Black Heart Spearhead (494) + 1CP

Archon + Agoniser, WL, Lab. Cunning & Writ (74)
3 x Triple Lance Ravagers (420)
This is fine, though I'll address the Dissie/Lance question in a touch.

Overall your list is very shooting centric, with no real screening units of note. Against Ad Mech this is *probably* okay depending on if he tends to run Stalkers or Striders or not. If he tends to be a very shooting centric AdMech list I would remind you that your Venoms are an excellent option to assault into his units and tie stuff up to lock down their shooting for a while.

You say he runs lots of vehicles, if he's running a pile of Robbie the Robots you're going to be very sad you're packing lances and splinter versus Dissies - if he's running Crawlers then you'll be looking pretty good.

If he is running assault elements be prepared to screen Ravagers with your Warriors. You don't always need to start in your dedicated transports also. Remember that the RWJF is an excellent screening unit also - feel free to put it in front of units for a turn, they'll be obligated to walk around it.

The only swaps I'd really go for is to drop 3 S.Cannons to switch two Venoms to Raiders with Dissies - this would also allow you to have the option of putting the Archons in vehicles with Warrior squads and leaving a Venom empty for the express purpose of tying up enemy units while overall improving your shooting performance versus vehicles and infantry.

@Chris9294 wrote:
Thanks for the hint, i already read about that, but im playing against an admech list with a lot of vehicles with 6 or 7 toughness, so i guess in this case dark lances are better cause of the 8 strenght over the 5
You're correct, but I just want to walk you through why the Dissie is generally a superior choice so you can understand for future builds.

Against toughness 6-7 1 Ravager taking 3 Lance shots re-rolling 1s to hit and wound equates to 2.3 hits, 1.8 wounds, for an average of 6.3 damage (not counting any potential saves)

Against toughness 6-7 1 Ravager taking 9 Dissie shots re-rolling 1s to hit and wound equates to 7 hits, 2.7 wounds, for an average of 5.4 damage (not counting any potential saves)

So, against T6-7 the Lance Ravager does slightly outperform the Dissie (it also does so at T10-16).
The thing is, against toughness 8-9 the Dissie performs much better.
Against T 5 or lower the Dissie performs much better.
Against models with 2 or less wounds the Dissie performs much better.
Against targets with a 5+ or better invulnerable save the Dissie performs much better.

So, if you are certain you won't need anti-infantry help, and that your opponent will bring a bunch of T6-7 units with 4+ wounds, yes, I would tend to advocate bringing Lances.
But in a sense of being ready to fight anything - the Dissie is hands down superior...and would save you 45 points on top of it, which is why it's such a favored weapon.

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Chris9294
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Chris9294

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PostSubject: Re: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 20 2018, 02:34

Thanks for the detailed info.
2 hours ago i finished the game. I made the changes Thor665 suggested and swapped 2 venoms in raiders, i think it was very useful. Im glad i had that much Dark Lances with me, cause i needed them against 2 Dunecrawlers, a Warglaive, 2 kastelan robots and 2 dragoons, all 6-7 toughness.
It was a very close game, i made a few mistakes but i pretty much won in turn 2 when i wounded the kastelan robots with 2 dark lances and rolled a 6 with both damage determining D6. So both robots died, one exploded and took a quarter of his army with him. He nearly came back when he spawned his Infiltrators behind me in his 2nd turn, but the damage was too high. In turn 4 i was able to kill the remaining infiltrators and bound the last 2 surviving dunecrawlers in close combat and then he surrendered.
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PostSubject: Re: 1250p cabal list, fast help needed   1250p cabal list, fast help needed I_icon_minitime

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