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 A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns

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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 15:26

Hey all,

I’m an old Biel-Tan-er who is dipping his toes into dark eldar. I’m wondering if any of the despot denizens of the dark city could give me a helping hand.

I have to lay my cards on the table and admit that the dark kindred are fairly xenos to me. Is there any common internet wisdom of what a Kabal specific 500 point army would look like?
I’m going to be painting them up as Lords of the Iron Thorn and I feel that the obsidian rose obsession feels like the closest to the fluff.

I’m not sure if this is the right place for this topic but a push in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Herlath
Ps apologies for errors in the text, I’m type in this out on the worlds small phone.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 19:30

I think there is a good Kabal specific starter kit out there that is worth buying, with an Archon, transport, and Kabalites.

For 500pts you could run an Archon, at least ten Kabalites in either a Raider or two Venoms, and a Ravager with some points to spare, and you're in a good place to grow your army from there.
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 19:38

Ah cool. Thanks for the reply. I’ve been thinking basically along those lines. Sad that true born have gone, I was thinking about trying to use as many as possible.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 19:45

You can still use Trueborn but I would only do this if you are willing and able to magnetize your Kabalites, because eventually the Index will be completely cycled out I believe.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/7ddsvk/new_designers_commentary_clarifies_index_vs_codex/
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 19:59

I’ll probably just use warriors. Maybe one day they will bring out a kit and rules and then I can go nuts.

Quickly bashing out some points. How effective are 5 man squads of warriors? Not that I’m interested in marking the most effective army, Just not wanting to be totally useless.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 20:11

They're super effective in a vehicle at that size, but with Obsidian Rose you can run Kabalites on foot or in squads of 10 in a Raider with a little more success than other Kabals: obviously the 6" range extension is great, but the Failure Is Not An Option Stratagem can keep a big unit in the game if your opponent doesn't commit to wipe them out.

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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 21:07

Ah great, that’s the general vibe I’ve been getting. Do you throw in an extra venom for your archon?
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 21:08

@lcfr wrote:
You can still use Trueborn but I would only do this if you are willing and able to magnetize your Kabalites, because eventually the Index will be completely cycled out I believe.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/7ddsvk/new_designers_commentary_clarifies_index_vs_codex/
I don’t think they will phase out Trueborn, and who knows, by next edition they may be ready to start introducing new models to existing factions and we actually get some Trueborn.

And even if they do phase the index out, you’re left with fancy Kabalite warriors with special weapons. Those will always be useful.

500 points is really tight, but you could fit a Kabal battalion in that.

Archon with husk blade, blaster, PGL x 2
5 warriors with blaster x 3
Venom x3
498 points

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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 21:20

Very interesting! I like the idea of true born a lot. I think it fits well with the aristocratic nature of the Lords of thorns. I might buy an extra box and make them up anyway.
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 21 2018, 21:22

Dumb question I’m sure. But I guess the index stuff doesn’t gain the obsessions?
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Fri Jun 22 2018, 07:23

anything with the <Kabal> keyword will get your obsession. I believe Trueborn have that keyword
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Fri Jun 22 2018, 10:32

Ooooh that’s good news! I had a quick gander round the inter webs. Looks like they do
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Sat Jun 23 2018, 15:41

What would help actually is to know what you tend to play with your Eldar and then we can best advise what to add from Dark Eldar.

For many of the things, your Eldar units will do the same things better.

I think a Black Heart Kabal would be a useful addition just to unlock the Agents of Vect Strategy. But then the question is which specific units.

As noted above, ravagers are very cost effective. And I think that Ravagers with Disintigrator Cannons will fit nicely into an Eldar force. Dark Lances aren't necessary as they have the same stats as bright lances which you already have access to.

That said, if you're already heavy on fire power, the question is whether a coven force would better complement what you play.
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Sat Jun 23 2018, 19:03

Hey silverglade,

Thanks for the reply. To tell you the truth I haven't played a game of 8th with my eldar yet. I have only this week gotten them out of the storage box. I own a bit of everything so I'm fairly versatile in terms of what I can choose. I would say that my old play style was footdar supported by prisms with fire dragons in serpents. I mostly try to play to fluff , so ill still be trying to pack in the aspects and avoid wraiths and seers (although current fluff movements and new models may change my view on this somewhat). But in general the things that I want to try out are: Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Dire Avengers and guardians. I'll be adding a squad or two of bikes as the updated models are fantastic.

Although this is starting as a side project to my craftworlders im going to try and build it into a full force, mostly because I just love the background. Even if it's not the most complimentary I'll probably stick with the base of Kabal. However, I will in time be adding coven and wyches so any thoughts are welcome.

Reading through the rules I am very taken with the Ravagers. I also really like the idea of a swarm of Venoms.

Cheers
Herlath
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Sun Jun 24 2018, 20:05

Well you can't really go wrong with Ravagers, so I would certainly go there first. Plus the obligatory Archon to fill out the formation.

Since your main force is Eldar, you may want to stick with spearhead, outrider and vanguard detachments to avoid needing to purchase more troops. Not that there is anything wrong with the troops per se, just that you're mainly eldar, so you don't need many of them.

For sure buy yourself some Dark Reapers. These guys are gold in this edition, even for their point cost.

I wouldn't bother with trueborn, as you already have fire dragons, who do the same job but better.

Jet bikes are great (both DE and Eldar versions). I never go wrong with a squad of 5-6 Windriders accompanied by a Farseer and Warlock on bikes.

Scourges are fantastic miniatures, and good points effectiveness now. They give you some deep striking punch in turn 2 to help your footdar cross the remaining distance while your opponent has to deal with the scourges in his backfield.


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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Mon Jun 25 2018, 12:16

Cool, thanks for the advice. Good to know that scourges are good. They are fantastic models.

What do you think gamewise about mandrakes?
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Mon Jun 25 2018, 15:04

I know that the lore is that this Kabal has the coolest gunboats but I think big Kabalite units is where the Obsidian Rose Obsession and Stratagem really shine. A unit of 20 packs a lot of firepower already but can be really well supported with the Hunt From The Shadows and Failure Is Not An Option Stratagems. A much stronger delivery mechanism for massed Shredders or Blasters than Scourges imo, at least for Obsidian Rose.
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Mon Jun 25 2018, 21:09

Mandrakes are pure gold, IMO. I use two units of ten in my lists, and thinking of getting another 10 for games higher than 1500pts. They have great shooting, and great melee. not amazing melee, but great. they really shine against T3 armies. They really need to get the charge off though, cuz they are rather squishy
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Tue Jun 26 2018, 11:25

Thanks for the replies guys,

Well I think to start with it’s going to mostly be a blob of warriors until I scrounge up some cash. So it’s the most likely way that I’m going to play. Then over time I’ll add vehicles.

Yeah I really like the sound of mandrakes. I think they and an archon will be my next buy.
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Nogrim
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Tue Jun 26 2018, 13:06

i feel like a broken record about this everytime some one posts about ravagers

follow the Youtube tutorial on magnetizing our vehicles and it pulls double duty as a transport if/when you arent running it as a ravager

if you plan on just tacking them on to your eldar force getting 3 ravagers and magnetizing them gives you a lot of options. you could run them as a spearhead (3xravagers), a battalion with 3x raiders, and 3x10 kabalites/wyches/wracks depending on which vein you want to tap, or any combo in between.

sorry, i feel like im a ravager salesman but they really seem to be the most versatile units in our whole range for the $$$. you also get a ton of bits and can re-purpose the extra figures (3 per ravager) that hang off the sides as warriors or wyches. you could do the same with the pilot/forward gunners/and two side gunners. but i think it looks crap if you dont keep them.
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Vect's Masque
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Wed Jun 27 2018, 00:29

@Nogrim wrote:
i feel like a broken record about this everytime some one posts about ravagers

follow the Youtube tutorial on magnetizing our vehicles and it pulls double duty as a transport if/when you arent running it as a ravager

if you plan on just tacking them on to your eldar force getting 3 ravagers and magnetizing them gives you a lot of options. you could run them as a spearhead (3xravagers), a battalion with 3x raiders, and 3x10 kabalites/wyches/wracks depending on which vein you want to tap, or any combo in between.

sorry, i feel like im a ravager salesman but they really seem to be the most versatile units in our whole range for  the $$$. you also get a ton of bits and can re-purpose the extra figures (3 per ravager) that hang off the sides as warriors or wyches. you could do the same with the pilot/forward gunners/and two side gunners. but i think it looks crap if you dont keep them.

Totally agree with this advice!  Magnetize that ravager and you'll have the option to make it a raider for those times when you'll want a mechanized option for your warriors (which is often).

I would also ask if you've explored some of our Coven units which are definitely the most 'unique' types of models compared to what you're already running with your eldar.  They are tanky, which is weird for eldar, they have average mobility, and they (generally) hit like trucks in cc. They can be expensive to buy from Games Workshop, but are some of the easiest to kitbash since they are all Frankenstein-type monsters.  One talos kit give you the pieces to make 2 talos AND a cronos (if you kitbash or buy the torso assembly for the other 2 bodies) or one talos and a unit of grotesques (once again, if you are able to kitbash the chest/legs from from GW or PP models for the grots).  This can be a relatively cheap and effective way to add 500 points of tanky kickass to your eldar army if you are comfortable with xacto knives and plastic putty Smile
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Prince Herlath
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PostSubject: Re: A new Lord amongst the Iron Thorns    Thu Jun 28 2018, 22:14

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I haven’t done any magnetizing in the past but it sounds like the perfect solution. It will work really well if I want to blob up big label squads as well. If I can swap between transport and gun boats that would be ideal.

I would say that coven are probably the last part of the army that I’ll make. Not for any other reason that I have fluff ideas for the rest. They are on my list and I think they are pretty cool, love those models.
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