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 Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Fri Jun 08 2018, 13:19

So I'm joining a league of 40k at my local store. The rules are preselected maelstrom missions and 3 player teams one against each other in 1vs1 battles. The thing is that we get the chance to choose opponents, following some rules, and that everyone will have 2 lists. My first list will be an Alliance of Agony with 3 patrols (BH, Strife, PoF), that I'll probably discuss on the army lists forum. For the second army I want something else, (I want to stay competitive but I also want the surprise effect and tactical options derived from variety), so I decided to bring some clowns to my BH batallion (2 archons, 3 gunboats, 2 ravagers).
The question is, I own a Troupe leader, 5 troupes, a death jester and a Shadowseer, but for the points I' m probably leaving the DJ at home. Should I give them a ride,.sacrificing the Seer? I have the time and cash to add a harlie transport.Though all battles will have lots of scenery (also LOS blocking elements), and we will get to decide our list just before the first roll off, so if I bring them on foot I will be able to adapt to the enemy codex.(not the list) and to the battlefield, and decide whether or not they will be safe enough. Your opinion?

Edit: I've read more about my options, and I'll probably field the troupe master and 5 players, all with embrace and fusion pistols, on a starweaver with the soaring spite masque and the option to get the Faoulchu wing for 1CP. 28" inch movement and then shooting 6 fusions in the enemy's face looks like a funny joke to me...
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Wed Jun 13 2018, 17:17

I plan to run a Soaring Spite Vanguard detachment with a Shadowseer, 5 Players w/Embrace & Fusion Pistol, Starweaver, Solitaire, and 2 Death Jesters.

If you can't afford to go bigger than a Patrol I think you should try to take a Shadowseer instead of a Troupe Master.
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phdx
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Fri Jun 29 2018, 18:11

Much of the value of the Troupe Master is the aura it provides, so for a small detachment the Shadowseer will almost certainly be better. The -1 to wound aura is an extremely powerful defensive buff, and the Shadowseer is far more powerful as an individual model:
1. Shards of Light/Smite/Grenade wombo combo - phantasm grenade launchers improve the reliability of her shooting too.
2. A respectable melee profile
3. Option to take the Twilight Pathways to further extend the threat range of your squad

The Starweaver is a great transport if you can afford it. Depending on the level of LoS blocking terrain on your typical boards, you can definitely get away with one big squad on foot supported by the Shadowseer (the most important utility the transport provides is preventing your guys from getting shot - with Twilight Pathways to double move they are going to have no trouble at all making it to their target) - definitely leave the pistols at home on that one to keep cost down.

The Silent Shroud is quite solid for a single unit as part of a larger army with more melee options - popping the stratagem to prevent overwatch and charging everything within 12" makes a huge mess out of gunlines.
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Frowny
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Wed Jul 11 2018, 17:13

Any thoughts on how to cheaply add some harlequins? I'm finding them so expensive that I can't get a detachment for less than 500 pts or as much as 1000 for a battalion. I'm specifically looking to fit in really just 5ish skyweavers since they seem better than my current t detachment of haywire scourges and readers, accomplishing both goals at the same time
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Wed Jul 11 2018, 19:32

Just add a Harlequins Outrider Detachment: 1 Shadowseer with three units of 2 Skyweavers.

Less than 500pts !
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Frowny
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Wed Jul 11 2018, 20:02

Are the shadow seers useful without Harlie's to support? I guess you put -1 to hit on an enemy and smite something?
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Thu Jul 12 2018, 00:21

@Frowny wrote:
Are the shadow seers useful without Harlie's to support? I guess you put -1 to hit on an enemy and smite something?

Their gun can actually be fairly useful too. Hit something with a marshmallow launcher PGL first and you have a decent chance of getting an extra 'smite' out of them. Double smite, plus the ability to deny is fairly good. Double move on bikes is nothing to underestimate either. TBH, I have been running deathjester with curtain fall, normal jester, and solitare led by a shadowseer (less than 500 pts too) and having a lot of fun and success on it. Solitare take the rose, and hunts IC's. My opponents are terrified of him now! I do wish the Dreaming Shadow masque trait didn't suck as much as it does, but their relic and strat more than make up for it.


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Clothar
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Thu Jul 12 2018, 04:08

I recommend always having a ride if you can fit them in. The Starweaver is arguably the best transport in the game and pairing Soaring Spite with the Wing can often be crushing. 31 inch melta pistols on turn 1 with no negatives to hit can completely swing a game and it has for me, especially in smaller point games.

If you pair your troupe with a Shadowseer rather than a Troupe Master, I would recommend spending the 5 points to bump your troupes weapons to the Caress. I personally use the Caress as my default weapon, but without a Troupe Master for the rerolls I would consider them a necessity.
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phdx
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 16:04

@Frowny wrote:
Are the shadow seers useful without Harlie's to support? I guess you put -1 to hit on an enemy and smite something?

Very. The main perk is a mortal wound combo with a PGL Archon (we have very, very few reliable sources of mortal wounds, so this is very useful).

1. Shards of Light
2. Smite
3. PGL w/ Phantasm Grenade (3D6 against -2 Ld, -3 if within 6" and Silent Shroud)
4. Hallucinogen Grenade (2D6 against -2 LD, -3 if within 6" and Silent Shroud)

This puts a lot of hurt on some otherwise obnoxious units. Twilight Pathways as the other power to improve the force projection of your Skyweavers (basically, probably using this T1, maybe T2, then going smitebot after).

This is in the context of the Outrider detachment discussed, haven't used troops much.
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assassin
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PostSubject: Re: Adding harlequins to a kabal competitive list: on foot or with a ride?   Tue Jul 24 2018, 10:35

I have been having pretty good success adding a Silent Shroud Vanguard detachment with 2 Shadowseers, 2 Death Jesters and a Solitaire to my Drukhari list using the very tactic phdx has described above. Add the torment grenade stratagem in there for extra mortal wound goodness.

If you aren't running Troupes I would say that you can definitely get away without the transport, even though Starweavers are pretty amazing.
Of course if you have just one Troupe throwing a Troupe Leader or Shadowseer in a Starweaver with them can make a very effective unit that is easy enough to hide, frightful fast and can be equipped to be pretty potent in Melee, shooting or even both.
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