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 Ynnari relics and warlord traits

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Kantalla
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Kantalla

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PostSubject: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 04 2018, 22:31

The big FAQ updated the rules for Ynnari, as they would have become unplayable with the new Battle Brothers matched play rules. You need to have one of the Triumvirate as your Warlord and then you can include them in a Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari detachment, with some restrictions. There are a few other special rules listed then they have this statement:

Quote :
"The Detachment is still considered to be a Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Detachment, and so can use Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics respectively."

Imagine I have a Spearhead Detachment of three units of Dark Reapers, one of Shining Spears, a Farseer and Yvraine.

Yvraine is the Warlord, so can be included in the Detachment, and it still counts as a Craftworlds Detachment.

To qualify for Stratagems I need to be Battle-forged and include a Craftworlds Detachment, so Craftworlds Stratagems can be taken.

To qualify for Warlord Traits or Relics, I need the army to be led by a Craftworlds Character.

I assume they intend Warlord Traits and Relics to be allowed, given they specifically mention them in the Ynnari rules quoted above. However, as Yvraine doesn't have the ASURYANI keyword, she isn't a Craftworlds Warlord, unless the quote above makes her count as one, so the army technically wouldn't be allowed Warlord Traits and Relics.

In my example, can Yvraine take a Warlord Trait from the Craftworlds Codex? Can the Farseer take a Relic (Yvraine cannot take a relic as a named character)? If not, could I use the Treasures of the Craftworlds Stratagem to take a relic on the Farseer?

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Squidmaster
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 09:46

I would say yes, by way of odd wording.

It clearly says that for a Detachment to be Ynnari, it must have one of those characters in it, and one of those characters MUST be your Warlord.
But you still have access to the Warlord Traits.

Although it doesn't say explicitly, there would be no point in having access to those Warlord Traits if your Warlord (Yvraine, Visarch or Yncarne) could not use them.


I now think I was wrong.


Last edited by Squidmaster on Tue Jun 05 2018, 14:18; edited 1 time in total
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Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 10:50

@Squidmaster wrote:
Although it doesn't say explicitly, there would be no point in having access to those Warlord Traits if your Warlord (Yvraine, Visarch or Yncarne) could not use them.
That is basically my reasoning for thinking they intend them to be available; why else would they say they are available if they aren't!

So in my example Yvraine can have a Craftworlds Warlord Trait and the Farseer can have a Relic?

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 12:38

Yes. That would work as I see it.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 13:56

I don't know, I initially agreed with Squidmaster but the more I think about it the more I feel that it's just bad wording. The Ynnari HQs don't break detachment alignment but don't, themselves, count as the relevant faction so don't get access to warlord traits or unlock a free relic.

You can still use the relic stratagem to get one or two, however.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 14:16

Hmm. On reflection there may be an issue. And by reflection I mean reading.

From CODEX: CRAFTWORLDS
Quote :
"If the Warlord of your army is a CRAFTWORLDS CHARACTER, you can either pick their Warlord Trait from the Asuryani Warlord Traits below or roll a dice and consult the table to randomy generate it."

So in this case, Yvraine and co are out and can't take Craftworld Warlord Traits because they are not CRAFTWORLD CHARACTERs.

Likewise, Relics:

Quote :
"If your army is led by a Craftworlds Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to an ASURYANI CHARACTER."

Here's a kicker. The Warlord MUST be Craftworld, because it specifically says so. No Craftworld Warlord, no Relic.


Similarly:
Quote :
"If your army is led by a DRUKHARI Warlord,"
Quote :
"If a DRUKHARI CHARACTER is your Warlord,"

Quote :
"If the Warlord of your arm,y is a HARLEQUINS CHARACTER,"
Quote :
"If your army is led by a HARLEQUINS Warlord,"


They may still count as Craftworlds, Drukhari and Harlequin Detachments, but Warlord Traits and Relics are not unlocked by the nature of your Detachment. They are unlocked by the nature of your WARLORD.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 14:27

I've seen several people use the various Stratagems for bonus Relics to bring one for a non-warlord aligned detachment. IE, a Drukhari Relic in an army led by a Craftworld Warlord.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 15:20

@Myrvn wrote:
I've seen several people use the various Stratagems for bonus Relics to bring one for a non-warlord aligned detachment. IE, a Drukhari Relic in an army led by a Craftworld Warlord.

The stratagems are fine, they've been specifically confirmed by GW FAQ that you can use them to bring relics from other factions as long as you have a detachment of that faction.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 05 2018, 23:11

I'm still uncertain about this one.

The logical part of me says:
1) Traits / Relics require a Craftworlds / Drukhari / Harlequins Warlord
2) To include Ynnari, the Warlord must be Ynnari
3) Ynnari characters are not Craftworlds / Drukhari / Harlequins
Therefore
4) Any army including Ynnari does not have a Craftworlds / Drukhari / Harlequins Warlord, so does not qualify for Traits / Relics

But when they say:
Quote :
"The Detachment is still considered to be a Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Detachment, and so can use Craftworlds, Harlequins or Drukhari Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics respectively."
They explicitly say you can use Warlord Traits and Relics.

That sounds like a specific exception allowing Warlord Traits and Relics, but they have said it is due to the Detachment rather than the Warlord, which doesn't match their other rules. RAW could still go either way to me, which is awkward.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 06 2018, 10:18

The trouble of course is that the Ynnari rules are terribly written, and have been terribly rewritten many times, so now it makes no sense.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 06 2018, 11:23

@Squidmaster wrote:
The trouble of course is that the Ynnari rules are terribly written, and have been terribly rewritten many times, so now it makes no sense.

I completely agree. I'm fairly certain that GW don't know what to do with them and that's reflected in the constantly changing rules and FAQs. They need to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.


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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari relics and warlord traits   Ynnari relics and warlord traits I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 06 2018, 11:51

Squidmaster - that's a succinct and accurate summary.

They will probably stay a semi-playable mess until such time as their rules get properly rewritten, as Count Adhemar suggests.

Not that it goes any way to settling this particular question, but there is a paragraph on the 'A Lethal Elegance' section of the Craftworlds Codex (p116) that says:
Quote :
YNNARI is a keyword that some units in this book can gain when taken as part of a Reborn army, as detailed in other publications. If a Detachment includes any YNNARI units, it is no longer a Craftwolds Detachment and will not gain either of the abilities listed below.

Clearly that needs to be superseded by the new Ynnari FAQ entry, and possibly their Craftworlds Warlord definition. Just another demonstration of how the Ynnari rules are a mess when combined even with relatively new Codexes.

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