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 Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 19:05

I'm sure everyone is aware of the Black Heart Spearhead with 3 Ravagers and Archon with Writ of the Living Muse and Labyrinthine Cunning.

However, what if you don't want to use (or don't own) 3 Ravagers? How useful is the Kabal of the Black Heart?

Is it worth using just for Labyrinthine Cunning? Is Writ of the Living Muse still worth taking?

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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 19:28

Nothing wrong with an Air Wing detachment. Three Razorwing Jetfighters are a potent addition to almost any Drukhari army. You miss out on Labyrinthine Cunning but still unlock Agents of Vect.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 19:34

^^

I don't run the Spearhead, I run my Air Wing Detachment as BH for access to AoV. Gaining 6++ is the best Obsession imo for a purely vehicle detachment, and I don't need to pay an Archon tax because I don't think the Writ has much mileage outside of the Ravager Spearhead.

Obviously I don't lose sleep over Labyrinthine Cunning either...I think it's a great Warlord Trait but for a Kabal Battalion I feel the other Obsessions provide more value.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 19:50

Okay, what about in a detachment with actual troops? Razz

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 20:16

It'd be difficult to justify taking it over the other Obsessions, for me. Writ of the Living Muse doesn't do much for troops when they could either already be re-rolling 1s to wound with splinter fire (if they're on foot) or don't benefit from auras (if they're in a transport).

Cunning and Agents of Vect are good but aren't dependent on the units that you're running, and the strength of the interaction between Writ, Ravagers and Thirst for Power is what makes the Spearhead difficult to pass up.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 20:37

I wouldn't personally take the Black Heart Obsession in a detachment with "actual troops," I'm only taking a Black Heart detachment at all for access to Agents of Vect, it's just icing on the cake that 6++ on my Razorwing Jetfighters and Voidravens is better than the other Obsession perks.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 20:40

If Incubi and Mandrakes benefited from the Obsession it might be a different conversation, but it doesn't buff Kabalites in any way that's meaningful for me.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 20:42

Okay, thanks everyone. I was trying to gauge how useful Labyrinthine Cunning was if I wasn't running a Spearhead or Air Wing.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 04 2018, 21:50

Nothing wrong with it, you will have more resiliant transports.
If you have to build a single Kabal detatchment (because you want pick the other two from wytchcult, coven, craftworlds or harlequins) you can bring BH without losing anything.
In fact, after tried both BH and FS, most of the times I would love to see my Venoms still alive after lucky 6 dmg wounds (6+++ is amazing in these scenarios). And where I like to bring Shredders on my FS Kabals maximizing the Obsession (no cover on Shredders is great, +3" on 12" is too), I feel like I'm not really maximize it when I field Blasters on them. So 5 Warriors w/Shredders for FS, but 5 Warriors for BH is mine personal way to go. So if you're looking for Blasters on them, BH is still the best Obsession OVERALL (yes, Obsidian Rose is good too with Blasters, but you"re missing Agents of Vect...that's why I'm saying "overall").

Go on, don't worry, you will not regret it.

PS: on Cunning, try 20 Kabals w/4 Shredders+2SplinterCannons DS with that Archon. Some peoples think that it doesn't value 3CP. The truth is sometimes it is, actually. They ad an outstanding punch when they arrives, bringing board control, cleaning objectives from large mobs, forcing for morale test, forcing your opponent to playing conservative (he must keep them in mind). They are 4D6 Shredders+40 (fourty) poisoned shots at 12", rerolling 1 to hit AND wound.
And if you're able to roll the charge, you will even get +1 to hit at turn 2. Niche, but if there's the opportunity, why not?
Sure, sometimes you will just spend 1 CP and just deploying the Warriors alone, but some other time you don't really know where to stuck that Archon, and this is a good way. Too many peoples understimate this trick.
It works great if you're not playing a CP dependant list (like a fully Kabal list can be).
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Tue Jun 05 2018, 12:51

Absolutely nothing wrong with Black Heart as your primary/only detachment for Kabals. There's an argument it "needs" Craftworld psychic support due to missing the reroll 1s, but Archons can provide that anyway.

In fact Black Heart + Craftworld Psyker list just took 2nd at a major (#1 was Skari, they never played each other).

So no, you don't HAVE to take just the Spearhead.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Wed Jun 06 2018, 00:15

I only have 5 painted warriors so I always play pretty kabal-lite (get it? ).
I think BH is a good obsession for any detachment that is made primarily of vehicles or mercenaries.
Also, it's worth mentioning that it's also quite good for the court of the archon. It gives the sslyth a 6+++ which can be used on the mortal wounds from his ability. Not reliable, but a nice little synergy nonetheless. It also allows youto play aggressively with Lhamaeans. If they make contact on turn 2, they're already hitting and wounding on 2s. Serpents tongue might be better for them overall though.
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Thu Jun 07 2018, 07:40

@sekac wrote:
I only have 5 painted warriors so I always play pretty kabal-lite (get it? ).

This made me lol more than it should have. XD

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LSK
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Sun Jun 10 2018, 19:42

Labyrinthine Cunning is optimized if you spend a lot of command points (I do, that's why I run 2 battalions).
BH obsession is great for adding resilience to vehicles.
Writ of the living muse is a very powerful improvement. You gain reliability in the stats.

So instead of running it with Ravagers (for obvious reason), I guess a good old Venom spam with blaster kabalites could do the job, and you unlock a cheap battalion (2 Archons + court, 3x 5 kabalites, 4 Venoms).
Venoms are -1 to hit, cast Lightning Reflexes if necessary. They gett a 5++ / FNP 6+ if necessary.
Send them all to flank one side.
The downside is that you need to disembark the archon for the aura to work ...
That's why I usually prefer the Ravager setup, with kabalite screen.

I tried the "20 kabalites + BH archon", webway portal stratagem at rapide fire range. They did an honorable amount of damage, due to the writ of living muse. But they died the turn after (you need to drop them within cover -stratagem +1 cover-, they are too weak to survive in the open).
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Mon Jun 11 2018, 08:10

Eh, I dont know if I'd take a battalion of em, but a side of em yeah. I mean, a 6+++ on your vehicles is nice, but it's not going to save you too many times, and... Labrinthe Cunning has just NEVER worked for me. Agents of Vect really does save games though...Especially against an alpha strike list that relies on strategems to work right
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PostSubject: Re: Black Heart without Spearhead/Ravagers   Fri Jun 22 2018, 15:24

My current tournament list runs either a minimal kabal of the black heart detachment for agents of vect and labyrinthine cunning or a small eldar detachment for access to doom. Depending on what you're seeing in your meta, it's a viable option since cunning alone usually nets 3ish cp's per game. I don't bother with writ of the living muse this way, but even the patrol feels like a battalion because of the cp it gains me.
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