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 Tantalus flamer wagon

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Rancid blade
Kabalite Warrior


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PostSubject: Tantalus flamer wagon   Thu May 31 2018, 20:32

So, I am trying to take advantage of the Esoteric Kill stratagem with my Tantalus. I came up with a weird strategy for the boat for when I am not sniping characters. I wanted to get people's ideas on it.

I have to have three units of Wracks for my troops. So I put three squads of wracks in the boat give them two liquifier guns each squad. And then put a haemonculi in the boat with another liquifier gun and so I have 7 guns in the boat. When I am not blasting characters with the strategem, I can zoom the boat pretty much anywhere and lay down 7d6 flamer shots... Could be brutal to hordes and the volume of shots with -1 to -3 shots makes it even a little scary for MEQs.

As the boat is so expensive, I really need it to do more than snipe characters. Let me know what people think. Meh or more!

RB
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dumpeal
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Thu May 31 2018, 20:51

You need to keep in mind that while the tantalus is our most durable vehicle, it's not THAT durable and if you put that many point on it, it becomes a prioritary target and will be shot down in 1 turn.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Thu May 31 2018, 21:23

I think the Tantalus is the best Coven unit to be able to take advantage of the Esoteric Kill Stratagem but I don't think you need to define this unit's role based solely on capitalizing on a Stratagem.

I think if you're going to be getting close enough to hose someone down with a Liquifier you're getting close enough to drop off a payload of Grotesques. I don't think your Tantalus should be defined primarily as a character sniper and secondarily as 7D6 S3 attacks at close range.
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Frowny
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 08:07

That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. You need cps somehow so are probably need those 3x 5 wracks somewhere. They are cheap and expendable enough that it isn't terrible if the Tantalus dies, which it likely will. They also provide some charge protection since you'd want to use it aggressively. Alterbatively, 5 wracks, a haemi and 6 grots also seems reasonable
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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 15:17

@Frowny, That's what I was thinking. I need to find a home for the wracks. If I need a screen, I'll use them as a screen, otherwise I'll use them in the boat... I guess if the circumstances are right, I'll use them as both. RB
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 16:01

Putting a bad weapon in a good transport doesn't suddenly make the bad weapon good. Every argument for why other weapons are better than Liquifiers still stands inside a Tantalus.

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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 17:06

@Chippen, There are some benefits that the tantalus provides to liquifier spam... For example, the excellent movement of the tantalus means you have more options regarding which units to flame. This means you can better target units that are more vulnerable. Also, The volume of shots that can come from the tantalus (because you can fit 16 guys in there) means you're more likely to wound.

Against T3 units, 7xd6 shots that auto hit, with at lease some save penalty, sounds pretty good. However, that wouldn't be half as effective without the super move of the tantalus. Also, because the flamers auto hit, there is no -1 to hit for firing after the vehicle advances. In some ways, that makes the gun better than other guns when you put it in the tantalus.

Against T4 units...? well, you're argument is stronger there. RB
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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 17:14

@icfr I thought about doing the Tantalus flamer wagon with grots. You can actually get more flamers in the boat and they make a huge forward threat. Fly the boat up, flame stuff. Turn two, get out of the boat flame more stuff, (pop the Crucible of Malediction) and then assault with the grots and the boat... But then what do I to with all these wracks? I have to buy 15 wracks because I need them to fill out my Battalion.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 18:10

@Frowny wrote:
That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. You need cps somehow so are probably need those 3x 5 wracks somewhere. They are cheap and expendable enough that it isn't terrible if the Tantalus dies, which it likely will. They also provide some charge protection since you'd want to use it aggressively. Alterbatively, 5 wracks, a haemi and 6 grots also seems reasonable

You need to place your warck somewhere, but as you are Dark Creed, to use the esotheric kill, you should try some morale strike. Take a raider with 2 units of wrack, screeming jet them near the ennemy, and next turn, when you unload your wrack, you'll have 3 units at range of the ennemy, to give him morale malus. A dark creed unit inside a transport is a dark creed unit that doesn't do it's job.
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Fri Jun 01 2018, 19:19

The delivery of a gun doesn't make the gun itself any better. That many autohits may sound fine, until you realize it's S3. and you paid 11 points for each one.

If you're gonna take a special weapon on Wracks, it's an Ossefactor every time.

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Mon Jun 04 2018, 15:49

I wouldn't run it as coven. With a 16" move I would really like to use fire and fade with it to be as sneaky as possible.

I also had thought about running it as red grief: 16" move, 16" advance, reroll charge and 6 S8 -2 AP attacks in close combat. Probably to expensive to throw it at heavy hitters but charging into a tank or smaller ranged anti tank units can prevent said unit from shooting in the next phase and probably take some wounds as well.

As payload either a lot of blasters, flamers or 7 grotesques + haemi with mask as well as urien.

But I haven't one yet so I couldn't really test it.


**edit**

@Frowny wrote:
Alterbatively, 5 wracks, a haemi and 6 grots also seems reasonable
The Tantalus can only transport 16 models and grots needing 2 slots each. You won't fit all of em in. 5 wracks, a haemi and 5 grots would work though.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Mon Jun 04 2018, 19:55

@Chippen wrote:
Putting a bad weapon in a good transport doesn't suddenly make the bad weapon good. Every argument for why other weapons are better than Liquifiers still stands inside a Tantalus.

This. Well... this except we're not talking about putting it in a good transport, we're talking about putting it in a 400 point ode to excess that runs you 25 points per transport slot (compared to the 8 points per slot it costs in a Raider). Leave the giant expensive forgeworld model at home, particularly if your best plan for using it is to give up the best coven obsession and put 3 liquifier guns in it.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Mon Jun 04 2018, 21:59

You can use Fire&Fade on Covens.
It's Lightning-Fast Reactions that is denied.



Anyway for a Tantalus I would play it from Cult of Strike. Kill something and shoot again.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus flamer wagon   Mon Jun 04 2018, 23:35

IMO the Tantalus in best solo, nothing in it (other than a Character and maybe 1 troop) really cheap, as Wych to shoot twice.

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