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 Haemonculi Ranged Weapons

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Sun May 20 2018, 22:18

I know that Haemonculi are more melee/buff focussed, but I'd like to have one with decent ranged ability if at all possible. So I'm interested to hear what you think is the best ranged weapon for a Haemonculus:
- Do you take the standard Stinger Pistol?
- Do you take the Liquifier Gun and hope for good AP rolls?
- Do you take the Hexrifle for some long-range shots (and for the same price as the standard pistol)?
- Do you take the Parasite's Kiss or Spirit Sting artefact pistols?


Also, what are your thoughts on Artefacts for Haemonculi? Do you take one of the aforementioned pistols? If not, what do you take? The Vexator Mask? The Helm of Spite? Something else? Nothing at all?

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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 00:21

The only time I ever really take ranged weapons on a haemonculus is when I have 5 points left over and need to blow them on something. The stinger pistol is as good a way to do that as any. Not the biggest fan of liquifiers due to low strength. Not sure about the hexrifle though. Seems like not the best investment for something you generally want to be up close.

I use a haemy in pretty much all of my Kabal/Covens lists because the vexator mask is so good (if I take a helm of spite it's usually on one of my blaster archons). Other than that they either get an electrocorrosive whip or a scissorhand. Always feels like kind of a waste to give them an agoniser because they have the haemy tools already so you're basically only paying for the -2 AP.
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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 01:11

While it's possible I'm misinterpreting, I don't believe the datasheet flowchart lets you replace your haemonculus's stinger pistol with a splinter pistol. As far as I can tell, you're stuck paying at least 5 points on either the stinger pistol or the hexrifle.

But for what it's worth, my Prophets of Flesh haemonculus brings an electrocorrosive whip and a vexator mask. I expect this will be a common trend in the thread.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 12:40

@Toffeehammer wrote:
The only time I ever really take ranged weapons on a haemonculus is when I have 5 points left over and need to blow them on something. The stinger pistol is as good a way to do that as any. Not the biggest fan of liquifiers due to low strength. Not sure about the hexrifle though. Seems like not the best investment for something you generally want to be up close.

Yeah, I'm not particularly keen on any of their ranged weapons.

@Toffeehammer wrote:

I use a haemy in pretty much all of my Kabal/Covens lists because the vexator mask is so good (if I take a helm of spite it's usually on one of my blaster archons). Other than that they either get an electrocorrosive whip or a scissorhand. Always feels like kind of a waste to give them an agoniser because they have the haemy tools already so you're basically only paying for the -2 AP.

Agreed about the Agoniser - especially when the Electrocorrosive Whip is just 4pts more and outright better.


@corollax wrote:
While it's possible I'm misinterpreting, I don't believe the datasheet flowchart lets you replace your haemonculus's stinger pistol with a splinter pistol. As far as I can tell, you're stuck paying at least 5 points on either the stinger pistol or the hexrifle.

Yeah, there was some debate about that a couple of weeks ago. Most people seem to think that you can take the Splinter Pistol, but I remain unconvinced. I'd prefer to see it confirmed in an FAQ or such before I use one.

@corollax wrote:

But for what it's worth, my Prophets of Flesh haemonculus brings an electrocorrosive whip and a vexator mask. I expect this will be a common trend in the thread.


I haven't managed to try the Mask yet. Is it really that good?

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 14:39

The mask is definitely vexing. Especially against first turn charging Blood Angels. That funny.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 14:42

Soulless Samurai, electrocorrosive whips are only 2 points more than the agoniser with the codex
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Mon May 21 2018, 14:46

@Mikoneo wrote:
Soulless Samurai, electrocorrosive whips are only 2 points more than the agoniser with the codex

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten it went down by 2pts. Even better then.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 20:38

Not related to ranged weapons, but does anyone use Ichor Injectors on their Haemonculi?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 21:37

I used Urien at the London GT and his Ichor Injector did a big fat nothing in every game. They're a total joke in my opinion. A weapon that relies in 6s to wound to do anything special but only ever has 1 attack!

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 22:10

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I used Urien at the London GT and his Ichor Injector did a big fat nothing in every game. They're a total joke in my opinion. A weapon that relies in 6s to wound to do anything special but only ever has 1 attack!

Yeah, it does seem like a poor design decision.

The reason I wondered about them on a normal Haemonculus is that you don't have to trade anything for them. So he can try for the mortal wounds with the Injector, and still have 4 attacks with an Electrocorrosive Whip.

If you still don't think it's worth it, then I'll save it for my silly werewolf-Haemonculus idea. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 22:28

Stinger pistol is available as an index option. Consult the flowchart.

The +1 to wound warlord trait interacts with the injector, although single attack still relegated it to a last minute point filler.
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 23:11

@withershadow wrote:
Stinger pistol is available as an index option. Consult the flowchart.

Are you sure? Going by the Flowchart, I use the Haemonculus datasheet from the Codex. So I've got a Haemonculus with Tools and a Stinger Pistol.

Via the flowchart, I can then use the wargear options from the Index. I'm looking at the (Index) Wargear Options section, and I'm seeing options to replace the Splinter Pistol he doesn't have with a Stinger Pistol, Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun. I'm seeing options to exchange the Haemonculus Tools for other melee weapons. I'm seeing the option to take a Crucible.

What I'm not seeing is an option to take a Splinter Pistol (or to replace his Stinger Pistol with one).

Am I missing an FAQ ruling somewhere?


@withershadow wrote:
The +1 to wound warlord trait interacts with the injector, although single attack still relegated it to a last minute point filler.

That's interesting, though the fact that that warlord trait only works during the fight phase is disappointing. If it worked for shooting as well, it might also make the Liquifier Gun worth considering.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 23:16

The ichor injector is actually one of the haemonculus best weapons and paying the extra few points is point for point worth it. But it does have the unfortunate issue of being a very (and I hate this overused word) volatile. You go from no damage to lots of damage really quickly. So it is super obvious when it does a bucket load of nothing! And that obvious state is most of the time!
Question on that, if you roll a wound roll, but want to reroll it anyway in the search of a six. Can you?
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Tue May 22 2018, 23:19

@LordSplata wrote:
Question on that, if you roll a wound roll, but want to reroll it anyway in the search of a six. Can you?

Sadly not. You're only allowed to reroll failed wound rolls with it.

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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Wed May 23 2018, 02:15

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Am I missing an FAQ ruling somewhere?
As far as I know, no. I agree with your interpretation.

Absent more evidence or a well-reasoned argument to the contrary, I think it's pretty clear that you can't use the splinter pistol to save 5 points.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Wed May 23 2018, 07:07

@corollax wrote:
Absent more evidence or a well-reasoned argument to the contrary, I think it's pretty clear that you can't use the splinter pistol to save 5 points.
There was a fairly extensive discussion about this a few weeks ago.

What the 'wargear options' from the Index means was the point of disagreement.

I think the ranged wargear options are: Splinter pistol or any item from the Tools of Torment list (Hexrifle, Liquefier gun or Stinger pistol). That is the ranged weapons allowed by the text in the wargear options box.

Soulless Samurai thinks the ranged wargear options are: This model may take items from the Tools of Torment list. That is the relevant text in the wargear options box.

Basically are the 'wargear options' the options or the text?

Given the Index flowchart is there so you can still field your conversions from the Index era, Soulless Samurai's interpretation seems to defeat the purpose, but it is logical if you accept the wargear options only means the text.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Wed May 23 2018, 10:03

That pretty much sums it up. I'd honestly prefer to be wrong, since I'd like to be able to shave 5pts off a Haemonculus and also be able to take Parasite's Kiss on one.

However, especially looking at the examples given under the flowchart, it looks like you only have access to whatever is in the 'wargear options' box on the Index datasheet.

I'm thinking I'll play it safe for now and assume I can't take a Splinter Pistol. Hopefully GW will clarify this one way or other at some point.

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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Ranged Weapons   Wed May 23 2018, 10:19

@Kantalla wrote:
Given the Index flowchart is there so you can still field your conversions from the Index era, Soulless Samurai's interpretation seems to defeat the purpose, but it is logical if you accept the wargear options only means the text.

This is my stance on it. It's not gaming the system to think that the rule which was intended to allow you to use models in the Codex which you could field in the Index... allows you to use a model in the Codex which you could field in the Index.

I've got a suspicion that this is one of those issues that GW won't issue a definitive FAQ about, unfortunately.
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