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 500pt Kabal List

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wyrmbeard
Slave
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PostSubject: 500pt Kabal List   Sun May 20 2018, 01:23

After having very little clue and copying others ideas I drafted my first list.

At this point I really want a core army I can expand on and have something I can take to a table without being embarrassed and called a nub.

I have most of the models I need to make this. I really want to eventually expand into 1500pt. I was thinking to keep it mainly Kabal adding some Ravagers, Fighters, or Voidravens. Then having a Wych patrol detachment with a Raider or maybe an outrider detachment with some Reavers.

Of course I don't know. Have a look at my list I did in Battlescribe. Pointers are appreciated. I'm especially interested in whether or not I should take the venom extras. I thought grisly trophies would have synergy with the Helm of Spite warlord trait.

Appreciate it ^_^

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [32 PL, 500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

Archon [4 PL, 76pts]: Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Splinter pistol, The Helm of Spite, Warlord (Archon)

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [4 PL, 48pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Shredder
. Sybarite: Agoniser, Splinter pistol

Kabalite Warriors [4 PL, 48pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Shredder
. Sybarite: Agoniser, Splinter pistol

Kabalite Warriors [4 PL, 48pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Shredder
. Sybarite: Agoniser, Splinter pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom [4 PL, 69pts]: Chain Snares, Grisly Trophies, Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 67pts]: Grisly Trophies, Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [32 PL, 500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Sun May 20 2018, 04:40

well, my first impression is "how are you going to deal with armor?"

I dont know about you, but my local group LOVES to spam armor at low points...

If its just a beginning, I would switch shredders with blasters, and take the Black Heart Spearhead to be most effective.

Also, kabalite warriors really dont want to be in CC, so you are wasting points and potential giving your sybarite an agoniser and splinter pistol. Warriors are very fragile, and its a small unit.
Imagine how things would play out... If you're getting into CC, its probably because your transport was destroyed... If your transport was destroyed, you probably lost 1 model to it, leaving you with a team of 4. Lets go for something basic here, say tactical marines... they will charge in, hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's. You will have a 5+, then a 6+++. It is very unlikely your Sybarite will even get to attack... And even if he does... at 2 attacks, hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's, mathematically he wont even do a wound.

Also, if you're going to go with a melee warlord in Flayed Skull, Djinn blade Famed Savagery is usually preferred. Helm of Spite is super fun against psykers, but useless against anything else. Depending on your local ruling on the subject, its better to spend the command point as needed to hand off Helm of Spite to your other archon whenever you are facing a psyker list

Lastly, and this might just be my own opinion.... Upgrades on your Venoms are pretty useless. If you have those few extra points laying around, I suppose, yeah..... But even then, I think putting PGL on your sybarites would be more useful.

Hope that helps!
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Sun May 20 2018, 22:07

So by the Spearhead detachment would i include a ravager and remove one of the venoms? I'm open too throwing the Archon in one of the Venoms for a KW. I really just wanted a foundation to expand on. I don't know the meta at my local GW i only play on an occassion with my brother i wanted something i could take to GW and gain some experience.

Thanks for the feedback it does help a lot.
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 03:03

How are you transporting your troops? Venoms only have a capacity of 5...
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 03:21

Theres 3 sets of 5 kabalites each gets a venom
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 03:28

I see 3 sets of 6 kabalites
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 03:32

Its just a mistake, the special weapon replaces one of the normal infantry. 3xKW 1xKW w SW 1xSyb for each unit
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 03:38

Then your points cost per unit is wrong. It should be 42 points per unit. I agree with Aschen, the upgrades on the venoms and the agonisers aren’t worth it. If you adjust then you have just over 30 points to spare. You can give your Archons blasters or upgrade your venoms to have 2x splinter cannon
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 04:12

Okay I've re-drafted the list taking in your guys advice and I'm on the money in points with this.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [26 PL, 500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

Archon [4 PL, 76pts]: Famed Savagery, Huskblade, Splinter pistol, The Djin Blade, Warlord (Archon)

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 65pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [26 PL, 500pts] ++

Soi've basically fixed my blunder, made the special weapon a blaster for each unit and given the non-warlord archon a PGL while giving the warlord a Djin Blade and Famed Savagery.

I'll take this down to the local GW and see how smashed i get, thanks! Very Happy
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 04:18

The pistols were supposed to be rifles for the sybarites*
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 04:52

Your new list is very solid. Don’t be surprised if you are the one doing the smashing

Edit: lightning fast reflexes strategem will be your friend...
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 05:07

..... so somehow I lost my post.... maybe I closed it on accident on the preview page? anyways...I wrote a list for you to see if you like it

96- Archon, Blaster, Djinn Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Famed Savagery, Warlord
93- Archon, Blaster, Huskblade

41- 5 Kabalites-Shredder, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
65- Venom
30- 5 Kabalites
65- Venom
30- 5 Kabalites
80- Raider, Disintigrator Cannon
archons in the raider with the 5 kabalites so they have protection... it gives you 2 blasters, 1 d cannon, a shredder, and 38 poison shots in rapid fire I believe....

Your list looks good too though, but no room for your archons, so they will be hoofing it!

A black heart spearhead costs 451, so you can add blasters to your bare kabalite squads as well, switch the shredder for a blaster, and drop a PGL on a unit for funsies... just an idea
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 05:23

I have a Raider from the Start Collecting Box so I could take both these lists and mess around with them. Thanks! Very Happy You guys have helped a lot, really.

I do have some nub questions though regarding stratagems and weapon assignment;

- I put the PSG on the non-warlord Archon deliberately - don't put all in your eggs in one basket - or should i just go ham with the warlord like Aschen has shown

- Kabal of FS vs BH stratagems - the black heart has the 'agents of vect' which just seems stupidly broken but the flayed skull 'masters of shadowed sky' seems a bit more consistent (at low points) and way cheaper for that little bit extra - but again i have very little experience about how these things play out

- also i could swap a KW in two of the venoms for the archon? but as mentioned crowd control might screw me in the end?
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 05:38

lets see what insight I can give

PGL on warlord is a good idea. For one, he's going to be doing as much or more damage than your other archon (same shooting, more melee). 'eggs in a basket' doesnt mean too much since kill points isnt based off of points of the model...

IMO, you take BH for the strat, and FS for their obsession. I would recommend going FS at first, while you are picking up the game, because Agents of Vect relies heavily on you knowing exactly when you need to use it.

Kabalite Warriors come in a minimum squad of 5, so you can't drop any to fit an archon in a venom
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wyrmbeard
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 05:48

Oh... Razz (about the Kabalite Squads)

Good advice thank you. A closing question i would have then is - how could i expand on this to say 1000 pts. I know it has infinite answers so lets say - Dark Eldar are glass cannons so maybe a tough coven patrol with wracks to hold objectives or some wyches to occupy enemy ranged units, or just add some voidravens and ravagers and overwhelm your opponent turn one if youre so lucky.

Based off of the list i drafted in battle scribe what would you do, based on your local meta and your ideas - it does help me understand the thought process.

Last question i promise Razz
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 06:12

I did one for my list up there a couple posts ago...but the premise is pretty much the same

Black Heart Spearhead is the most efficient way to do things.. it gives you the 3 Ravagers with D cannons you are going to want, an archon to give rerolls of 1 to hit, and if you give him the artifact, reroll 1 to wound. That'd be 451 points right there. so you have to figure out what to dump 49 points on. Switch one of your venoms to a raider with a Disintigrator cannon (15 pts) add a splinter cannon to your venoms (20 points) add two Kabalites to your warrior squad in the raider (12 points) and a PGL (3 points) on one of your sybarites. its technically more 'effective' on an archon, because of the 2+ to hit, but since both of your archons are going to be in the same boat, throwing it on a Sybarite in a venom will allow you to hit multiple targets easier. Unless my math is off, thats exactly 500pts

If you are aiming for more of a casual experience though, I wouldnt go with a Blackheart Spearhead.
Add 2 Ravagers with D cannons to the current list, a unit of 10 Mandrakes (they are really fun this edition) then you have 90 points to spend on.....I dunno.. 5 more mandrakes? (80pts) 10 Warrior squad, with a splinter cannon(70), and splinter cannons on 2 of your venoms (20)
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 06:34

At low points I wouldn’t care too much for BH. Flayed skull, Obsidian rose and Poisoned tongue are all viable.

As for stratagems, -1 to hit, mortal wounds from the PGL and command rerolls would be your bread and butter.

For reference, I played this 750 list at a tournament and smashed three pretty strong lists. Scored full points on all my games.

Obsidian rose

Archon, blaster, djinn blade, warlord, hatred eternal
Archon, blaster, venom blade, helm of spite
2x5 KW, shredder
1x5 KW, blaster
3x Venom twin splinter rifle
2x Dissy ravagers
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Henning
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PostSubject: Re: 500pt Kabal List   Mon May 21 2018, 06:40

Using coven to expand to 1000 points is a good idea. For 500 points you can add a vanguard or spearhead ie

Prophets of flesh
Haemonculus
3x4 Grotesques OR 4 Talos chainflail, macro scalpel, twin haywire blaster
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