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 Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 10:15

Sooo fellow Archons I have my first battle after a long (like two editions long) time of not playing.

What better way to start with the "new" codex, no feel left of how the game plays and a small 3k points game against a long-time veteran. And its going against Imperial Guard.

From what I know I have to face 1-2 Sentinels, 1-3 Basilisk, 2-4 Chimeras, 1-3 Hellhounds, like 4 Leman Russes with at least one Punisher and probably a shadowswort or something along the lines. Maybe a Valkyrie too. Gaps are going to be filled with a metrical crap-ton of infantry and probably a small hand full of weapon teams.

I on my hand can field everything I have to exactly fill the points. I don't thing I have that bad choices to field though but its a pretty wide variety of stuff and perfect for the alliance of agony:

Coven:
a small group of wracks, urien and a small group of Taloi

Cults:
a few groups of 10-man/woman wytches with 1-2 succubi (battalion)
a decent sized bike squad or two minimalistic ones
a decent sized group of hellions (probably using the webway)

Kabale (probably all-black-heart for vehicle-survivability):
A bunch of raiders, ravagers, venoms and a razorwing
Probably three hunting groups of small kabale squads in venoms with blaster for a battalion

And as an additional support a small group of scourges and a decend sized group of mandrakes, a few Inccubi and a nice court for the Archons pimp-mobile (Lhameans and a Sslyth).

To the main question:

Anything I should look out for in this match in the current edition? I only played a few times Dark Eldar in 5th or 6th edition and, as I wrote, I have no experience what so ever in the current one.

What are the main threats? What is the target priorization? I think almost anything can IG can muster can hurt me bad. Even rapid-fire lasguns sound scary when you ride on a raider or venom. The hellhounds probably have to go first, followed by the punisher. Or should I priorize the shadowsword? The basilisks sound like pain too.

Any other tactical advice? Speed in an block with the wytches or seek the distance and try to out maneuver? Although IG has range too on their weapons and with 6k points of troops on the table there isn't much space left to dissapear into the shadows.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 11:08

I am not the most experienced one here by far, bt I also play some guard.
I find target priority difficult without seeing eveything in front of me, so I will just give some general advice.
Tanks hurt you bad, but get them in combat and they are useless. The exception being the shadowsword, which you either have to focus or just accept he will kill 1 or 2 of your vehicles a turn.
You usually do not have to kill leman russes just get them into combat, your own vehicles are great for this. Also with things like hellhounds and flamers it usually pays to engage them with a consilation move.
Guard infantry can be darn scary when they have commander support. Depending on how he plays them you might even have to fear them in melee (they can get s4 2attacks each and fight twice with the right leaders nearby, then again they also get 4s3 shots a turn if you did not engage them, so engaging often is still a good idea). Get rid of the leaders, who are quite squishy, and they are much less of a problem. If you can get them against the leaders then Hellions are quite good against their leaders (who do not have a good save as well as an invurnerable save, have multiple wounds).

Against guard, if you can tie as much as possible up in melee and get rid of the leaders, then they will lose. If they can get into a shooting match with you then you will die.
Lastly if you have objective spread them out, they often rely on having multiple units screening others to make sure you cannot charge the important targets, if the objectives are spread out you can often reach sides/ rears because you can fly., Expect to get as much as possible in combat every turn (yes even ravagers and such usually are better of in cc with guard since you can just retreat in your turn to shoot anyway while he can't.
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 11:26

Yeah, can't stress it enough how you just have to be aggressive and tie up his shooty stuff. The infantry will die fast, even in numbers. Hydras are the real danger, 4 auto cannons hitting on 3s will smash your vehicles.

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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 12:40

Getting in CC is the only reliable way to counter IG. Red grief reavers are well suited for this.

Also everything that can give orders is very annoying. Commisars and the like don't tank much, but they are characters.

If I see that I can't tie up his tanks into CC in turn 1 or 2 after deployment, I try to focus tanks and units with anti-infantry weapons. Then if my raiders and venoms pop he should not have much anti-infantry weaponry left. This works for me because my army as about as many points in vehicles as in infantry. And warriors with blasters are awesome against vehicles.

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 13:26

@|Meavar wrote:
I find target priority difficult without seeing eveything in front of me, so I will just give some general advice.

I know. I don't know either what exactly he will field and I really don't want to hand-craft a anti-list against him. But general advice is what I'm exactly looking for.

@Ragnos wrote:
Getting in CC is the only reliable way to counter IG.
Sounds scary if he brings a lot of hull-mounted flamers. But I guess I'll try to take every chance I get here.

@Ragnos wrote:
Red grief reavers are well suited for this
Yea I really like the guys. Question though is how big to field them. I lack the models for 2*6 so I probably go 1*9. That sadly is only one unit in a 3k army though.

@wormfromhell wrote:
Hydras are the real danger
Not 100% sure I'll see hydras.. although thinking back it might be very well possible.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 13:51

For your reavers, 3 squads of 3 is better than one of 9. Your goal here is to engage the tanks so they can't shoot, not to be able to kill them per se. So more options is better.

At 3K points you must have a large number of raiders/venoms as well (as everything else you listed doesn't add up to a lot of points). Venoms are decent for charging into CC with your opponents tanks as well. You may want to take some of them as red grief to allow them to advance and charge and to give you the re-roll on charge distances.

Vs. tank heavy guard, the key to your victory is keeping him from being able to shoot you while you shoot him.

Stick some of those wyches into raiders. The raiders get them across the board (and can charge tanks) and then the wyches get into those mobs of infantry.

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 14:12

I count in 3 venoms, 4 raiders and 3 ravagers and a razorwing. The idea was 3 raiders with 8-10 wyches each (one with the two succbi). Another raider with the Inccubi, the Archon and his court.

*edit*
I'll try if I can squeeze 3x3 reavers in but as I wanted to run it as a battalion I can only take 3 fast attacks and with the hellions it would be 4 choices.
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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 15:06

Honestly, playing against Guard was a terrifying idea for me right up until I actually did it. If you have even an average amount of darklight the tanks will go up in smoke in no time and the thing that surprised me the most was just how quickly my splinter weapons chewed through the masses of infantry. That was the big worry for me.

Gotta remember that lasguns can harm our vehicles now in the future though. That got a little dicey at times.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 15:31

Shredders are going to be your friends if you wanna chew through infantry. Hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's and rerolling failed wound rolls against infantry. Very tasty.

I'm currently running amok with a 20 strong unit of warriors with 2 x splinter cannons and 4 x shredders in deep strike.
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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 17:25

I don't think that the infantry will be your biggest problem. Therefore, I would rather take blasters on the warriors. You can't have enough darklight against IG.

Also use haywire blasters on talos. And try to shoot first with darklight weapons and then finish of the last wounds with haywire.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 17:53

@Silverglade wrote:
For your reavers, 3 squads of 3 is better than one of 9.   Your goal here is to engage the tanks so they can't shoot, not to be able to kill them per se.  So more options is better.




I disagree here. 3 are pretty fragile even for an Overwatch. Plus, Lightning Fast Reflexes is perfect for a large unit of Reavers that is going in the enemy ranks.

It's the only point
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hexxenwyrd
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 18:26

I think you overestimate overwatch.
If they have a heavy flamer then the get 3.5 hits.
2/3 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 5/6 get through the shrug. That's less than 2 wounds.
And you have 6 wounds on 3 models. And that's about the most dangerous option.

Obviously you run into a problem if you run into something like a hellhound ora baneblade, but even a 9 man squad should not chargre a hellhound or a baneblade.
Nothing else should have even a reasonable chance of making 4+ wounds.

Lightning fast reflexes is not cheap, and does nothing on overwatch. Save if for ravangers, a raider with valuable cargo etc.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Thu May 17 2018, 18:51

It happens to me that when I Multiengage with Reavers just for tarpit the enemy, then he tend to focus them down fast because he know that these Reavers are capable to screw up his ranks but multiengaging Tanks. That's why a LFR on them is more valuable than over any other target. They becomes their public enemy, so making them as hard as I can it's a good way to absorb the largest amount of attenctions from my opponent. It's a timing concept which work pretty good for me.

But most of it, it's really difficult to engage any valuable Tank (ie. Tank Commanders) even with RG Reavers. Usually there's a large mob or multiple 10 squad units around them (if the IG player know the Reavers), so sometimes you want to engage some other stuff. A big unit can manage to survive against a large blob of infantry, were 3 Reavers risk to die for an unlucky (or not) overwatch.
And you maximize your drug, but that's a niche bonus...
I don"r know, both ways are good, but I find myself more comfy with a larger unit more than 3x3 one.
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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Fri May 18 2018, 09:06

Another thought:

I try to run 2 Taloi with an Haemonculus. My first plan way 2 groups of 1 talos and soack up some shots. But as I already plan to run webway for the 10-man squad of hellions I might as well make a single group of 2 Taloi and use the two remaining free slots int he webway for them and the Haemi. What do you guys think, is it more viable to let em soack fire in turn1 or shock them in turn 2 along with 5 Scourges, 10 Mandrakes and the 10 man hellions?


Ignore that, they are not basts but monsters, so no webway for taloi :/
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Tzelok
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Fri May 18 2018, 16:28

Regarding RG Reavers - I run 3x3 and kick the sh** out of guard whenever I play them.

Yes, guard players have learned not to leave a lot of space between their tanks where we can charge them - but you really typically only have to kill a FEW models before enough space opens up for 3 reavers. THIS is the main reason I like taking them in 3's, even if my opponent prepares for it I can usually plink off enough models that it opens up the smallest gap, making a charge possible.

Other general advice - your characters will curb stomp his, and his infantry. I've started taking incubi as a way to tone down my lists, but it's usually a unit of wyches, my archons, a succubi, and the incubi bum rushing the horde of infantry once they can. With your list I can see the Taloi eventually getting there and being that CC hammer for you.

As you're getting there, you need to focus on those tanks that you can't charge (IE: Hellhounds, Baneblades, etc) or tank commanders (Pask is no harder to kill than your average leman russ).

As you're murdering in CC, kill all the characters as fast as possible. Expect them to call artillery down on their position as you kill them with their strat - half the time it kills the rest of their guys and does nothing to you, but it can really really hurt sometimes (esp if you're losing like 3/5 incubi).

Hope that helps!

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Sat May 19 2018, 20:20

Sooo, match is over now. Regarding the bikes: as I had only 3 slots for fast attackers, I had hellions, a bike squad of 3 and a bike squad of 6. I also went for only Dark Lances on my Raiders/Ravagers And thanks for the advices.

Match went extremely in my favor. The luck started before the game actually.


Deployment (From the back of my head):
We rolled for splitted deployment. I got both short sides of the table and my oponent had to take a 12" wide line in the middle. No cards for tactical objectives but 4 mission marker. Holding a marker at the end of your turn would give you a point. Pretty neat for fast Dark Eldar. I also managed to seize the initiative, nice.

We also had to split up our forces into three waves, no wave larger then half of the troops. I decided to put half of my troops in wave 1, the other half in wave 1 and only hellions would arrive in wave 3. My first wave also contained my hard hitters. 3 Ravagers, 3 venoms with Kabale+Blaster, the 6 man bike squad, the 2 Taloi with Urien and a Raider with 10 Wytches.

He decided to let his detachments stay in coherincy as much as possbile. So one Detachment every turn. That turned out to be fatal though. I could concentrate a ton of firepower on fewer models. He also brought a Knight in wave one - along with two Basilisks, two weapon teams a Commander and a officer. Turn two was 5 Leman Rus, 2 Hellhounds and 3 Sentinels. Turn 3 his infantry squads, bullgryns and a few officers.

Turn 1:
was pretty fast. My bikes almost blew up one Basilisk and then charged to bind it into combat as well as the Artillery Officer. The Raider with the Wytch squad did the same with the other Basilisk. His weapon teams where easy targets for the venoms and only the commander and artillery officer survived. The Company Commander on the otherhand charged the bikes in return. The Basilisk and Company Commander managed to actually kill of two bikes and took no combat damage in return. I also took only like 3 wounds of the knight.

For the Imperial Guard, only the Knight was free and able to shoot. He shot down a Venom and took a wound of a Ravager. That was it. Points wise I took all four objectives in my turn and the Knight was too far away from them to score and his troops holding his objectives died during my turn. So far 4 - 0 for Dark Eldar

Turn 2:
The rest of my army (excluding the Hellions) arrived. I left the bikes in the combat with the basilisk/company/commander/artillery officer to block that side of the table for reinforcements. The Raider who was fighting the other Basilisk moved towards the middle of the table and its Wytches departed and moved to the middle themselve. The second Basilisk was an easy Target for the Taloi with their Haywireblasters. I had no Idea where to place my Mandrakes/Scourges that where arriving that turn because there where no Enemies to shoot left, so I just placed them at mission markers (Mandrakes) or in cover (Scourges)

The rest of the army also moved to the middle of the table but I left enough on the northern table-side we were fighting to block reinforcements from that direction. He could only come from the south with his second wave. I also concentrated my whole firepower on the Knight who fell fast under Darklight.

His second wave came in 9" from the south border. 5 Leman Rus, 3 Sentinels, 2 Hellhounds. They managed to kill of the Kabalites who where in the Venom that was killed in Turn 1 and where now holding one of my objectives. He also managed to kill a Raider on another objective and Kill its Wytches shortly after. He also used a Tallarn order to advance far enough to said point to score.

I scored again 4 points in my turn and his knight was still out of range for anything to score but one of his Leman Rus scored 1 Point. So far 8 - 1 for Dark Eldar

Turn 3:
I moved everything south except a few objective scoring Marker. I took out 2 Leman Rus and hurt anything else pretty bad. Except the Sentinels maybe. The 4 Scourges were supposed to take out the last wounds of the Hellhounds but they all missed. That would really hurt me later (relatively). I boosted one of my empty Raiders infront of the objective that I had lost last round and managed to get in reach.

On his turn he managed to kill off the Scourges with one Hellhond and took a few wounds of my Ravagers/Raiders. Two of them where within their last two wounds. He also tried to kill of my Raider that was holding the southern Objective and drove up there with one of his Leman Rus who had Objective Secured or some other shenenigan. The Raider survived but he managed to score that one.

I scored again 4 points in my Turn and he got 1 point with his Leman Rus. So far it was 12 - 2 for Dark Eldar

Turn 4 (last turn):
My Archon exited his Raider and seeked combat himself (finally) as well as the Succubis and the Wytches. They all aproached the remaining Tanks and Hellhounds. All of the imperial armour was damanged pretty bad at that point (except the Sentinels).

My Dracon saw his chance to claim the ladder to the top though. He took a single blaster shot at one of the Hellhounds. The moving barrel of flammables exploded in blast of sheer heat and death. D3 Mortal wounds for units within 6":
-A Leman Russ (who died through this explosion)
-A Squad of 10 Guardsmen with 2 casulties
-A Lheaman took 1 wound - 2 remaining
-My slyth took a wound for the Archon and two for himself - DEAD
-5 Inncubi took 2 wounds - 1 DEAD
-5 Wytches took 2 wounds - 2 DEAD
-A Succubus took 2 wounds - only 3 Remaining
-The other Succubus took 1 wound - 4 remaining

Not impressed at all the Archon himself made the only right decision at this point: he shot his blaster pistol at the other Hellhound infront: it also went up in flames
-A squad of 10 Guardsmen - 1 DEAD
-A Succubus lost another 2 wounds - only 1 remaining
-4 Inccubi took 3 wounds - 3 DEAD
-The Archon made his feel no pain.. like a boss

The rest of the Army managed to kill everything armored except a badly hurt Leman Rus and two Sentinals. A few Guardsmen went down and a few survived. But all in all it looked dire for the Imperial Guard. I still managed to get 4 objective points.

We called it at this point: 16 - 2 at the end of turn 4 for Drukhari.

Thoughts:
All in all the Guard player rolled ok but I made some pretty good rolls on my side. The mission/deployment was in favor of me too and the fact that I managed to seize the initive was probably too much. We had quite some fun this game. I was happy to finally play the Dark Eldar again and he was happy to fight them. Next time it probably won't be such a "easy" win for the Drukhari I assmume.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Raid against Imperial Guard.. target prioritisation   Sat May 19 2018, 21:42

Well written battle report.

I agree that the mission in general favours the player who goes first (but then again most do!). And certainly you made the better tactical decisions in splitting your force than your opponent did. Well done!

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