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 What needs tweaking?

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hexxenwyrd
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 16 2018, 18:44

But elites isn't the hard one fill in.
Grots and trueborn give good elites to kabal and coven, on top of mandrakes.
Fast attack is harder because while i like scourgres, they are it. Hellions and revers are so clearly cult.
Heavy support could expand the ravanger, but the coven faction strat on them would be way too good.

Kronos getting a buff would help. Personally i think giving their gun -4 ap would help and fit the fluff.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 16 2018, 19:31

I think beasts need a defined role, rather than the beastmaster becoming a BfH. Beasts like Khymerae and Razorwing Flocks should, thematically, be a disposable first wave. I think either a scout move to get them running ahead of the main army or just make them properly cheap screens which die to a stiff breeze. But the model prices and finecast mono-pose restrict the dirt cheap option.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 19:42

Blade for Hire Beastmasters would be a VERY nice change, because you would no longer need a Wych detachment to bring beasts. I can see beasts being useful as screens for Kabals (those backfield Ravagers) and for Coven, which usually move on foot. Wych cults are simply too fast for the beasts to keep up.

Razorwing flocks are probably alright the way they are. Clawed fiends need to be no more than 25 points. Khymerae probably need to be 2 wounds.

I would gladly include beasts (at least flocks without the above changes to fiends and Khymerae) in my lists that don't feature Wych cults.

@hexxenwyrd wrote:
But elites isn't the hard one fill in.

Kronos getting a buff would help. Personally i think giving their gun -4 ap would help and fit the fluff.
I think if it could heal from both ranged and melee attacks, it would be easier to justify its inclusion over just another Talos. And yeah, a better AP would be nice since I don't see how armor can help you from getting your soul sucked out.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 21:14

I ran Beasts before the Codex because they were really easy to include with my Kabal....now it's a little trickier.

I've been enjoying the list building challenges that come with our Codex though, and am thinking about having a Drukhari soup detachment for about 400-500pts of 'leftovers' led by Lelith that don't lose big to not having an Obsession.

Obviously Beastmasters are one of those units, but even Grotesques are powerful enough for 35pts that I wouldn't feel toooooooooo bad for having a squad of them as my only Coven unit, for example. Or having Lelith without the Cult of Strife perk.

I think it depends on the list obviously, but ultimately most of our units are still really good even without an Obsession.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 22:30

@withershadow wrote:
Blade for Hire Beastmasters would be a VERY nice change, because you would no longer need a Wych detachment to bring beasts. I can see beasts being useful as screens for Kabals (those backfield Ravagers) and for Coven, which usually move on foot. Wych cults are simply too fast for the beasts to keep up.

Razorwing flocks are probably alright the way they are. Clawed fiends need to be no more than 25 points. Khymerae probably need to be 2 wounds.

I would gladly include beasts (at least flocks without the above changes to fiends and Khymerae) in my lists that don't feature Wych cults.

I absolutely agree, that's what I've been thinking as well. I think having (good) beasts as a non-aligned force would add another layer to the Codex and make listbuilding more fun overall.

The only thing I'd wish for is making the Beastmaster an HQ, but I think that exceeds the notion of "tweaking" Razz

@withershadow wrote:
@hexxenwyrd wrote:
But elites isn't the hard one fill in.

Kronos getting a buff would help. Personally i think giving their gun -4 ap would help and fit the fluff.

I think if it could heal from both ranged and melee attacks, it would be easier to justify its inclusion over just another Talos. And yeah, a better AP would be nice since I don't see how armor can help you from getting your soul sucked out.

I think the Cronos has some terrible design choices. It's low strength + low volume range attack is a dealbreaker. And the restore-wound mechanic is wasted because of bad AP and a low amount of attacks. Sure, it buffs our units, but its slow and doesn't do much else.

To add insult to injury it only has a 4+ WS and BS. Sure, it's not that expensive but I fail to see the return value.

I can't think of a simple tweak to fix that. Apart from making it cost about 60-70pts.


Frankly, I think the Cronos should be more expensive than a Talos but also pack a punch. I'd change its ranged weapons to always wound on a 3+ (with exception of vehicles and titanic) or at least buff it to S5.

For melee, I'd give it an additional D3 attacks. This way you can actually make something out of the restore-wound ability and it would give incentive to the enemy to avoid it in close combat.

Then, give it 3+ WS and BS and price it around 135-150pts.

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WhatAHowl
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 23:03

Have to agree on the Cronos, it's a let-down in combat and support. The fluff for it is amazing, this hideous machine radiating pure bad and Space Marine captains withering and dying just by being near it. Obviously I don't think it should have the capacity to melt Captains at its currebt price, but it's weapons and abilities need to be seriously improved.
Could making its ranged weapons roll against Leadership rather than Toughness work? Weak-willed infantry would melt in front of it, while braver sorts would stand a better chance, which seems to fit the fluff.
As for support, could a +1 to Inured to Suffering rolls aurabe an option? It could represent the invigoration Drukhari get from the Cronos.

I'm fully spitballing here, I'm definitely not a gaming expert!

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hexxenwyrd
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 23:27

@thestrangedarkone
Cronos are bs3+ now, and being a support piece makes feel different than the talos. And always wounding on a number for a ranged weapon is not something the faction needs more of.

Increasing the ap on weapons to -4 would do enough to make it somewhat scary.

Not keeping up with the transports is a problem for them a support pieces. A speed increase and another buff that could stack with the spirit probe would do more to give unique feel. Maybe reroll innured to suffering?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Tue Jul 17 2018, 23:41

Modify the spirit probe for the following "If a coven unit that is 6'' from a cronos with a spirit probe is the target of a psychic power, you can deny it on a 4+ roll "

It would give us some protection and something our army lack.
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hexxenwyrd
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 00:14

Why restrict it to coven?
Otherswise i love it.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 15:22

@hexxenwyrd wrote:
Why restrict it to coven?
Otherswise i love it.

Because our aura only works on the same kabal/cult/coven. And, you know.... "Dark Eldars can't be too good"
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 15:30

We're already too good.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 15:53

didnt the cronos have a piece of equipment that lets him deny psychic powers? where did that go?
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 15:55

@Burnage wrote:
We're already too good.

so is guard and eldar
if everything is overpowerd, nothing is
I believe the other (weaker) codices should be overhauled (FOR FREE) or updated to an extent where they themselves are too good
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hexxenwyrd
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 16:46

Dumpeal, the spirit probe as is proves you wrong as its not coven restricted.
Drukari are very good, but they're pushing towards monobuild. Thus stuff like dissies and grots getting tweeked down, cronos and incubi up.

But yes grey knights need an update before dark eldar. And orks need a codex first.
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jackers
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 17:18

GKs almost need a full codex rewrite at this point to make them viable in 8th, but that is OT for this board, lol.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 19:00

The only stuff that is not "too good" this edition, is stuff wearing power armor.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Wed Jul 18 2018, 20:53

@withershadow wrote:
The only stuff that is not "too good" this edition, is stuff wearing power armor.

except the power armor rides on a dawneagle jetbike
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Sat Jul 21 2018, 06:16

@AzraeI wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
The only stuff that is not "too good" this edition, is stuff wearing power armor.

except the power armor rides on a dawneagle jetbike
2+/4++ is not really power armor.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Sat Jul 21 2018, 19:22

@withershadow wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
The only stuff that is not "too good" this edition, is stuff wearing power armor.

except the power armor rides on a dawneagle jetbike
2+/4++ is not really power armor.

yeah you're right
custodes wear nothing but their manly chest muscles
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 19:46

@AzraeI wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
The only stuff that is not "too good" this edition, is stuff wearing power armor.

except the power armor rides on a dawneagle jetbike
2+/4++ is not really power armor.

yeah you're right
custodes wear nothing but their manly chest muscles

Thanks. Now I have the Text to speech emperor custodes in my head....
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 19:57

KillTeam has warriors at 7 points, so that’s one change we all expected and can start planning for.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 21:18

@withershadow wrote:
KillTeam has warriors at 7 points, so that’s one change we all expected and can start planning for.

I'm not sure that Kill Team's rules necessarily mean much for the future of 40K. I'm not going to be expecting Blast Pistols to change to 2 points or Dark Lances to change to 4 anytime soon in 40K proper, for instance.
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WhatAHowl
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 21:25

I would very much like for those points for darklight to be valid for 24 hours, just to watch Imperium players lose their minds.

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...believe me, I am still alive.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
I'm doing science, and I'm still alive.
And when you're dying, I will be still alive.
And when you're dead, I will be still alive.


- Overheard muttering in the regeneration chambers of the Coven of the Gift Revealed
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Mon Jul 23 2018, 21:29

@Burnage wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
KillTeam has warriors at 7 points, so that’s one change we all expected and can start planning for.

I'm not sure that Kill Team's rules necessarily mean much for the future of 40K. I'm not going to be expecting Blast Pistols to change to 2 points or Dark Lances to change to 4 anytime soon in 40K proper, for instance.
Drat, I would actually take blast pistols a lot more often if they were 5 points or less. Very Happy
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Dibs
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PostSubject: Re: What needs tweaking?   Thu Aug 16 2018, 23:37

The army lacks a proper ranged TEQ option. I would kind of like to see Sslyth moved to blades for hire, moved to plastic, sold as units of 3 and given access to haywire and shredders. A man can dream...

Also just curious, does anyone use Ur-ghouls at all?
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