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 Drop Pod cheesemongering

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Tue May 15 2018, 22:06

Is the question about the drop pod doors clear in this edition? because i thought about an army of marines using the open drop pod doors to block incoming attackers. if the doors count as part of the model, attackers cant charge over/ trough them, making the marines unchargeable (unless you can fly)
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 10:19

No.....it doesn't seem to be clear at all.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 10:22

Who even takes drop pods at their current prices?

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 13:01

i know, they are pretty overcosted, but with the strat i proposed they might be worth taking
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 14:20

Declare a charge against both the drop pod and the marines.
Problem solved.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 19:25

You still cant go over the open drop pod doors. So if the marines stand 1" behind the doors, you can charge them, but you cant hit them, as they are not within an inch
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 21:23

@AzraeI wrote:
You still cant go over the open drop pod doors. So if the marines stand 1" behind the doors, you can charge them, but you cant hit them, as they are not within an inch

that has to be the stupidest thing I ever read. If someone tries that on you in a game, pick up his drop pods, snap the doors off, then replace the model. Problem solved version 2.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 21:44

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
You still cant go over the open drop pod doors. So if the marines stand 1" behind the doors, you can charge them, but you cant hit them, as they are not within an inch

that has to be the stupidest thing I ever read.  If someone tries that on you in a game, pick up his drop pods, snap the doors off, then replace the model. Problem solved version 2.

It's not worse than the "I'm on a 1,1 inch crate, your daemon prince can't assault me"
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Wed May 16 2018, 23:17

I'll try to ask GW about this, do you know whats their mail for this kind of stuff?
I'll also try this strat with a friend of mine, he is kinda the man for this cheese strats Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Thu May 17 2018, 01:25

A friend and I generally revert to the 7th ed FAQ that said that the doors were ignored for all purposes.

That said, RAW in 8th ed, someone could argue what you're saying.

Either a) you don't ignore the doors, in which case you have to charge the drop pod (or run around the doors)

or b) you do ignore the doors, in which case you move over them as if they were not there.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Thu May 17 2018, 08:23

I thought the FAQ from 7th said the doors do count as part of the model, what lead to a tournament where one player plastered the table with open drop pods

I mean it has disadvantages as well, a model with a footprint like a open drop pod is nearly impossible to place in a good spot
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Thu May 17 2018, 12:56

@AzraeI wrote:


I mean it has disadvantages as well, a model with a footprint like a open drop pod is nearly impossible to place in a good spot

Right. And if they pulled that, you could be a stickler for the rules as well. No, your marines cant move over the doors either, you can't move through even friendly models. No, that door flap is resting over a wall of a ruin. vehicles cant do that, etc etc.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Thu May 17 2018, 13:26

In 7th, just like in 8th, there are no rules for moving parts of your model, such as the doors. You might be able to play some shenanigans, but you can't land and then decide whether you want to open the doors. If however, you modelled them open and blocked off the board to a melee army, it might be legal.

I liked the drop pod doors are just for visual effect approach best.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Thu May 17 2018, 22:03

really, movig parts dont count? and i thought every part of the model counts for LoS etc in 8th. can i turn my leman russ battle canon 90° and claim 50% obscured and can also shoot if it sticks out a ruin?
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Fri May 18 2018, 01:29

Strictly speaking there are no rules for moving parts of your model so you aren't allowed to adjust the pose of your model. I don't think anyone would have a concern with pointing a turret at the target, but you shouldn't get game advantage for it.

For an extreme example you could have a Predator just out of line of sight behind some hard cover, so your opponent is unable to shoot at it. In your turn you claim not to move, but rotate a sponson out so there is now line of sight available. That would be illegal in 8th.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Fri May 18 2018, 16:55

@Kantalla wrote:
Strictly speaking there are no rules for moving parts of your model so you aren't allowed to adjust the pose of your model. .

That statement contradicts itself.

If there are no rules for moving parts.... then you by definition are allowed to adjust the pose since there is not a rule preventing it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Fri May 18 2018, 21:44

@Silverglade wrote:
@Kantalla wrote:
Strictly speaking there are no rules for moving parts of your model so you aren't allowed to adjust the pose of your model. .

That statement contradicts itself.

If there are no rules for moving parts.... then you by definition are allowed to adjust the pose since there is not a rule preventing it.

No, in a permissive ruleset such as 40K you need a rule to say you CAN do something.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Fri May 18 2018, 22:02

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
@Kantalla wrote:
Strictly speaking there are no rules for moving parts of your model so you aren't allowed to adjust the pose of your model. .

That statement contradicts itself.

If there are no rules for moving parts.... then you by definition are allowed to adjust the pose since there is not a rule preventing it.

No, in a permissive ruleset such as 40K you need a rule to say you CAN do something.

exactly. there is no rule against flipping the table or injuring the opponent, yet nobody seems to do that (that I see at least)...

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Sat May 19 2018, 12:46

there is actually a rule preventing from moving a turret, in the BRB the movement rule states no part of the model can be moved further (than X") from its original position. If the whole model stands still and you move the turret the whole model counts as having moved. My suggestion was abusing this for a cover save, eg the tank stays behind a los blocking terrain feature in a ruin and only the canon is visible, then the tank shoots from the canon in a 90° angle
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Sat May 19 2018, 16:50

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
@Kantalla wrote:
Strictly speaking there are no rules for moving parts of your model so you aren't allowed to adjust the pose of your model. .

That statement contradicts itself.

If there are no rules for moving parts.... then you by definition are allowed to adjust the pose since there is not a rule preventing it.

No, in a permissive ruleset such as 40K you need a rule to say you CAN do something.

Yes and no.  (I take your point, but I'm not sure that's 100% correct).

You have me intrigued though. The last several editions clearly discussed moving turrets, doors etc, but this one doesn't seem to.

So based on your statement, is what you're saying that what ever "orientation" that you put your models with moving parts on the table at the beginning of the game sticks?

I haven't looked up what Azrael suggests in his last post, but I like that idea.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Sun May 20 2018, 01:06

@Silverglade wrote:
You have me intrigued though.   The last several editions clearly discussed moving turrets, doors etc, but this one doesn't seem to.

So based on your statement, is what you're saying that what ever "orientation" that you put your models with moving parts on the table at the beginning of the game sticks?
Exactly that. I doubt anyone would have any issue with rotating a turret to aim at their target, but in terms of the rules you should keep it pointing straight ahead, or however it was set up.

In terms of rotating the turret to get the shot out of cover, technically you shouldn't do that, but in reality it will make so little difference compared to slightly shuffling sideways or rotating a corner.

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Sun May 20 2018, 06:25

The more I think on this. The more I'm convinced that Azrael has it correct.

If you turn your turret such that it is now visible and wasn't before... you have moved as it is further ahead in a given direction than it was previously. Similarly if you pivot out your dark lances to the right or left on a ravager, you're outer edge is further to the right or left. Therefore you have moved.

So this brings us back to the drop pods.

Just as the turret on a tank counts as part of it. As do the drop pod doors. Once you place your drop pod on the table, it is now "there" as deployed. If you subsequently opened a door, you would be closer in that direction, and drop pods are not permitted to "move".

So I think you're still in a position where the doors must and do count as part of the model. So if the doors are open, you'll likely just need to charge the drop pod itself as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop Pod cheesemongering   Sun May 20 2018, 07:29

@Kantalla wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
You have me intrigued though.   The last several editions clearly discussed moving turrets, doors etc, but this one doesn't seem to.

So based on your statement, is what you're saying that what ever "orientation" that you put your models with moving parts on the table at the beginning of the game sticks?
Exactly that. I doubt anyone would have any issue with rotating a turret to aim at their target, but in terms of the rules you should keep it pointing straight ahead, or however it was set up.

In terms of rotating the turret to get the shot out of cover, technically you shouldn't do that, but in reality it will make so little difference compared to slightly shuffling sideways or rotating a corner.

Only if you are measuring from that point that, if you are measuring from a fix point then it wont matter.


RAW doors count, but that means when it DS the Doors needs to be 9" away and it makes meleeing and shooting it MUCH easyer, also harder for him to DS it as has a huge footprint. If he is going to drop 3-4 Pods to make a wall, well good for him b.c we can just fly over and he wasted 450pts.

I would talk to him before adn come to an agreement how you guys will play it, that way you both know beforehand.

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