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 Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?

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Glass Battleaxe
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PostSubject: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 12:41

Hi all. I know this has probably been covered to death before, but I wanted to ask what loadouts you give to your Scourges - specifically, if you're going for a larger squad.

I'm choosing a larger squad as part of a 2000pt tournament list I'm writing up, which is mostly fluff-based: the Archon for the kabal I'm making has wings, and as such, Scourges play a vital role within his battle plans. The squad in question will be making up one of the three FA choices for a Wych Cult Outrider detachment in my list (the other two being a Kabal Battalion and Coven Spearhead) and I wanted some advice as to what heavy/special weapons to give them.

Here are my current options (plus any more of that choice in my current army list) based on the models I have built at the moment:

1: 4x Splinter Cannons (another 3 in Kabal detachment - 2 10-man Kabalite squads + 1 RWJF)
2: 4x Blasters (Plenty of darklight in Kabal detachment - 2 5-man Kabalite squads, RWJF, Voidraven, Ravager, Archons)
3: 2x HWB and 2x Heat Lances (that many in Coven detachment - 2 Taloi)

At the moment, I only have one built with a Shredder, as I built most of them pre-codex - and in some cases, pre-8th edition - when Shredders didn't (to me) seem like a viable option. I am hoping to get another box of Scourges soon, but as I've already got 4 Shredders in my Kabal detachment, I'm not so keen on adding more (plus, the kabal is Obsidian Rose, so theirs have better range).

Also, how do you arm your Solarites? I've currently got five at the moment with the following armaments:
- Blast Pistol and Venom Blade
- Blast Pistol and Agoniser
- Blast Pistol and Power Lance
- Splinter Pistol and Venom Blade
- Shardcarbine (+ melee weapon)

Most of the time, I tailor it to the heavy/special weapons in the squad, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions or preferences.

Here's the rest of the list, if it's any help. It's not quite finished yet, but this is the basic idea of what I want to use.

Kabal Battalion - Obsidian Rose
- 3x Archons - Blaster and Venom Blade (Warlord); Blaster and Agoniser; Blaster and Power Sword
- Court of the Archon - 2 Sslyths and a Lhamaean
- 2x 10 Kabalites - Each squad has 2 Shredders and Splinter Cannon; One sybarite has Agoniser, the other has a Power Sword
- 2x 5 Kabalites - Each squad has a Blaster; One sybarite has Blast Pistol and Agoniser, the other has Blast Pistol and Power Sword
- Ravager with 3 Dark Lances and Shock Prow
- RWJF with Splinter Cannon and 2 Dark Lances
- Voidraven with Void Lances and Missiles

Wych Cult Outrider - Red Grief
- Succubus with Blood Glaive and Blast Pistol
- 10 Wyches - 2 Hydra Gauntlets and 1 Shardnet and Impaler; Hekatrix has Agoniser and Splinter Pistol
- 5 Hellions - Helliarch has PGL, Stunclaw and Splinter Pistol
- 3 Reavers - Loadout tbc
- 10 Scourges - Loadout tbc

Coven Spearhead - Prophets of Flesh
- Haemonculus with Venom Blade, Stinger Pistol, Ichor Injector and Nightmare Doll
- Cronos Engine with Spirit Probe and Spirit Vortex
- Talos Engine with Twin Liquifier Gun, Talos Gauntlet and Twin HWB
- Talos Engine with Ichor Injector, Chain Flails and Twin Heat Lances

As always, any advice, suggestions or tactical tidbits are greatly appreciated.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 14:32

If you're fielding a 10-man squad, just maximize the shard carbines by adding the cannons. That's 45 shots from the unit, which is pretty solid.

For small specialist squads, the new hotness is haywire for finishing off vehicles, and shredders for finishing off infantry.

The blaster v. dark lance debate is as old as the unit itself. I fall on the lance side of this, due to the expense of the weapons (lances are easier to keep alive due to range), and the changes to first-turn deep strikes.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 15:58

I second the splinter cannons/shard carbines for a max size unit. Keep the anti-tank weapons in the small 5 man units, there's no need for you to take a 10 man unit when you want blasters/haywire/darklance. 10 man squad with all anti-infantry weapons at least will function well together. If you want to keep them cheap you could even just go for the carbines, as a base weapon they certainly aren't bad.

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Crokadilla
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 17:27

@withershadow wrote:
The blaster v. dark lance debate is as old as the unit itself.  I fall on the lance side of this, due to the expense of the weapons (lances are easier to keep alive due to range), and the changes to first-turn deep strikes.

What changes to deep strike are you referring to? Apart from coming down turn 2 and 50% army rule, I don't know any other DS updates. These also do not affect scourges that much as they were probably coming down T2 anyway to finish off something that was already damaged.

When choosing between blasters and Dark Lances, note that DLs will get a -1 to hit on the turn they DS even if you do benefit from the +18 inch range over the blaster. Probably still worth it though to keep them more survivable. At the same time though, if I were going to try and outrange with DL scourges why not just deploy them on the field and shoot T1 without moving?
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 18:00

The beta rules are that deep strikers now can't drop outside of your own deployment zone during the first turn, so that's certainly a point in favor of dark lance scourges. That rule makes dark lance scourges somewhat useful again, but I'm still mostly in favor of blasters, I don't mind waiting till turn 2 to bring them in. Plus I tend to use shredders/haywire blasters more on my scourges anyway for a little more variety across the army.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Tue May 08 2018, 18:24

@Crokadilla wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
The blaster v. dark lance debate is as old as the unit itself.  I fall on the lance side of this, due to the expense of the weapons (lances are easier to keep alive due to range), and the changes to first-turn deep strikes.

What changes to deep strike are you referring to? Apart from coming down turn 2 and 50% army rule, I don't know any other DS updates. These also do not affect scourges that much as they were probably coming down T2 anyway to finish off something that was already damaged.

When choosing between blasters and Dark Lances, note that DLs will get a -1 to hit on the turn they DS even if you do benefit from the +18 inch range over the blaster. Probably still worth it though to keep them more survivable. At the same time though, if I were going to try and outrange with DL scourges why not just deploy them on the field and shoot T1 without moving?
I don't mind waiting for turn 2 or 3 to drop the small clean-up squads, but the Dark Lance squad is too expensive to leave off the board not shooting for a turn.  However, depending on the terrain and your opponent's capability, deploying them leaves them exposed to an alpha strike.

So instead you can deep strike them turn 1 into your own deployment zone and have the range to still contribute. People use Screaming Jets to protect their Ravagers like this all the time. Scourges can basically do this for free. And of course, you have the option of deploying them out of sight, flying into a firing position, and then using fire and fade to withdraw again.

And yes, they suffer a penalty, but I don't consider it much of a penalty.  This unit costs as much as a Dark Lance Ravager, and even with the penalty, 4 lances at 4+ should net me as many hits as 3 lances on 3+.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Wed May 09 2018, 02:59

The first answer is.... don't take a 10 man squad. very inefficient.

I would not go with the splinter cannons. You're paying 40 points for 12 extra shots, you'll miss with 4 of those, and only wound with 4 of the remaining. Of those four, your opponent will save from 1-3 of them.

40 points is a lot for 1-3 wounds.

If you're hell bent on taking a 10 man squad, then I would opt for the Shredder to continue to add to the anti-infantry option.

It's only 8 points, and should deal a lot more damage than the splinter cannon.
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Glass Battleaxe
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Wed May 09 2018, 12:38

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Got a small gaming session tonight, so I can test out some of the ideas there.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Thu May 10 2018, 13:09

Why would you take a 10point gun for on a scourge (22pts) when you could spend 2more points and get an extra scourge? More wounds, with the same number of shots. Unless you want to use the range somehow, which you won't with a large squad it just doesn't make sense.

I've used a few small scourge squads with only shard carbines, and they work quite well. Good harassing units that can be dropped down to do a variety of tasks without costing too many points, making you feel like you are wasting their potential.
And as a matter of fact have a very high damage output compared to our other options. Very short life span too though...
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Thu May 10 2018, 13:50

@Silverglade wrote:
The first answer is.... don't take a 10 man squad.  very inefficient.

This.

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MrStimpson
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Thu May 10 2018, 20:08

Keeping them stock at 10 strong means you can move and advance while still being able to shoot. It's nice when you want to use them to clear objectives.

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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Fri May 11 2018, 00:35

@LordSplata wrote:
Why would you take a 10point gun for on a scourge (22pts) when you could spend 2more points and get an extra scourge? More wounds, with the same number of shots. Unless you want to use the range somehow, which you won't with a large squad it just doesn't make sense.
The only reason is if you've already hit the max 10 members, and still want MOAR POIZN!
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Best Loadouts for 10-man Scourge Squads?   Fri May 11 2018, 03:27

Fair, 10 man with 4 splinter cannons is a massive amount of poison attacks.

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