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POwell0
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PostSubject: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 02:29

So i have read in a few other threads that a lot of people think Wyches cant kill MEQ, or referred to as a speed bump/Heamie escorts.

My wyches dont seem to have any problem, they rip through anything they come into contact with (usually GK and Black Templars). Is this just me being EXTREMELY lucky or are they really that bad??!!
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 03:05

I don't think they have problems killing MEQ other than basic intrinsic ones that are often offset by drugs. I don't 'rip through' MEQ (that's what Incubi do), but I certainly kill them functionally with Wyches.

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POwell0
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 04:26

Sorry rip through was a bit excessive but they certainly dont have any problems with them. Its just that a lot of people seem to sell them short when IMHO only genestealers seem to be on a par as per CC troops choices
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 04:58

Define 'par' I suppose. There are plenty of things that are more potent at killing things than Wyches. Wyches are about the best grinders in the game though, and they're dangerous for almost any unit to end up locked in with.

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POwell0
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 06:26

Yes there are but they are either more expensive or are Elites or HQ's, As Troops choices there arent that many and i dont find them to get 'locked' in combat the most i have had them in the same combat for is 3 turns and that was against BT's Sword Brethren and i still came out on top (although admittedly i only had 3 Wyches left).

I just personally dont understand why some people give them a bad rep or just use them as a 'speed bump'. I love these ladies and they always do very well for me
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 06:33

It's my perception that very few players use them as a speed bump (though they are quite good at that). Most people who field them use them as an assault tool whose purpose is to kill things - I suspect most players wish they killed stuff 'better' but I agree that they don't deserve to be mocked as bad. They're not a top tier assault unit, but as far as Troop choices go, I can't think of any other assault Troop that holds a candle to them besides *maybe* Orks in big enough numbers.

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Preacher
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 11:02

I tend to find my Wyches are used to "tie up" units and hold them in place while I work around them. They're not so much a speed bump as a toll booth. (But then I've mainly played 3+ save armies with the new codex).

Against non-CC units I could quite easily leave them in the combat and watch them grind through the unit in a few turns, Hekatrix with Agoniser to deal some actual damage and Hydra Gauntlets to force a stupid number of saves. This work's fairly well, but is ineffecient. The trick is what you're doing away from the Wyches. If you have a unit tied up with Wyches, being forced to make constant saves, and you then throw some Incubi in to the combat things start getting very messy.

Or alternativly it's given me the chance to line up other units. Prime example, I charged a unit of Wyches into Plauge Marines. Yes both units are tied up, fairly unable to damage each other, however wanting his PM's free the combat is quickly joined by a unit of Bezerkers. Wyches fall like wheat to the zerker charge, leaving both units in rapid fire range of the Duke and warrior buddies. Not much was left of either unit by the end of that shooting phase.

So my luck with Wyches is improving (I gave up using them in the last codex as my roles became so poor with them). However the new Wyches are a wonderfully useful unit that can deal well with low toughness opponents, or with some planning work well as part of the "whole" against tougher armies.


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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 14:33

I find wyches can do either role. As their old 7 man w/ aggie (and now a shardnet) they can tie up any squad for a very long time, while just slowly pecking away with their agoniser. Great when combined with an HQ or tieing up dreads w/ haywires.

On the other hand 10 (or 9 w/ a haemie) w/ either razorflails or gauntlets can put a dent into almost anything. Sure they arent "great" against MEQ, but with combat drugs and with them not taking many casualties, they will grind out marines like no other. I also find them one of our best anti-horde (probably next to the razorwing) and will slaughter guardsmen, nids, or orks without even flinching.

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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 22:14

@Thor665 wrote:
It's my perception that very few players use them as a speed bump (though they are quite good at that). Most people who field them use them as an assault tool whose purpose is to kill things - I suspect most players wish they killed stuff 'better' but I agree that they don't deserve to be mocked as bad. They're not a top tier assault unit, but as far as Troop choices go, I can't think of any other assault Troop that holds a candle to them besides *maybe* Orks in big enough numbers.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 22:17

Good call there - though only with FNP I would say.

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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 22 2011, 22:51

They have A LOT better deal on that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Wed Nov 23 2011, 10:48

@POwell0 wrote:
had them in the same combat for is 3 turns

This my main concern.

In an army that NEEDS to stay on the move, that most of it can move, run, assault ... "wasting" full turns locked in combat is something that "worries" me.

For example, the other day I had my first game vs necrons, basically to see how the swarm+spider config works...

I was flaberghasted.

19 swarms (yup, 10+3x3 spiders... 19...) swept into my "base" and basically muched up 10 wracks, 1 haem and 10 warriors in 1 single round of multi assault. S3, no PW... but 85 attacks? sigh...

My turn 2, my Talos comes in (thank god!!!!!) and assaults the swarms. They kissed at each other 5!!!!!!!!!!! turns. So thats a "no talos for you" game.

On the other side of the board, 15 wytches (no agonizer, only PW) locked with 10 swarms... and got stuck 3-4 turns, taking the grunt of the swarms and 3 spiders that came along.

Did they hold their ground?

Hell yes!

Yes, I know "benchmarking" the unit vs 30 wounds is probably not the best test...

My "benchmark" for infantry munching is either 10 MEQ or 30 orkz mob.

If a unit can RIP!!!! through this in 2 turns (my assault and your turn), its a GOOD antifantry unit.

So basically... Furioso with Talons, Death Company, TLC terminators... 5 incubi is pretty good too (kills 5 MEQ)

All in all... for me the gals are ok, and EXCELENT troop option and VERY good at holding a Cc situation.

But they don't pack a big punch.

Good hunting!
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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Wed Nov 23 2011, 20:54

The point i was making is that yes they were stuck in combat for 3 turns but that was against TH/SS termies (something which even other Elites have problems dealing with) and they still won, ok i lost 7 wyches to his 4 termies but still, for what they do in my opinion there are non finer and i use them as my main assault units and they rarely let me down.

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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Thu Nov 24 2011, 02:59

I find that my wych squads usually do kill MEQ in 2 turns of combat wich is nice so long as you weren't charged…

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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 29 2011, 18:18

@Thor665 wrote:
Good call there - though only with FNP I would say.

Hmph. Can't recall the last time I saw these blighters without Apothecary. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Wyches!!   Tue Nov 29 2011, 18:49

Depends how spammy they're getting with their Razors usually.

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