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 Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in

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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 07 2018, 10:33

Fellow Archons,

In our gaming league I’m currently ranked #3 and will be playing the #1 this Wednesday. In order to obtain the rank that should by all rights belong to the true kin I ask for your tactical insight, as I’m sure even rival archons will not suffer one of their own to be denied by lesser races.

1500 pts ITC mission vs Thousand Sons.

I’m expecting a Tzaangor bomb, cultists, rubrics, Ahriman, a Demon Prince and some goats on Tzeentch discs. Maybe Terminators.

I intend to bring a BH spearhead (warlord plus 3 Dissie Ravs), a Flayed Skull battalion (Kabalites in Raiders) and a Prophets of Flesh patrol (6 grots, Vexator mask).

To be honest, when looking at the matchup I can’t help but feel confident. Dissie Ravagers will drop Marines and disc goats by the droves, there’s no virtually long range threats and even the Tzaangor bomb will spontaneously combust when faced with 6 Grotesques I believe, as will the demon prince. He’ll have to come to me, and the BH spearhead should be his prime target, so it’ll be fairly easy to lure him in and then hit whatever comes in first (Prince or Tzaangors) with the Grots. If the prince hangs back he’ll be lit up by blasters/spare dissies. Win win really, no?

Do you have any additional tactical advice?

Sinister thanks,

BC


Last edited by BlackCadian on Thu May 10 2018, 19:59; edited 1 time in total
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 07 2018, 14:05

Do not underestimate the Tzaangor bomb. While buffed you will be at -1 hit and they will sit at 4++ saves. Strat can bring then to +1 to wound and/or make them attack twice. Agent of Vect will stop only one of these.

I suggest a helm of spite to help stop the buffs and make him fear for his psykers.
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Nogrim
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 07 2018, 14:45

i second that, seems like an absolute must. don't forget about the crucible either.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 07 2018, 15:44

Let it run around the board and shred him down
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 07 2018, 16:22

I'd also watch out for the daemon prince, those guys can be pretty beastly in close combat.

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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Tue May 08 2018, 08:30

Thousand sons were not effected by the smite nerf. So you will eat 4-5 smites per turn. You will need to sacrifice a unit per turn to smite spam. Other than that if he has the model, Magnus can show up, but he will probably die to your shooting. If he can brinh allies, he could bring nurglings and plaguebearers to act as defensive screen for ahriman and dps so you’d need to deal with horde if that happens
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Tue May 08 2018, 13:28

@Razorfate wrote:
Thousand sons were not effected by the smite nerf. So you will eat 4-5 smites per turn. You will need to sacrifice a unit per turn to smite spam. Other than that if he has the model, Magnus can show up, but he will probably die to your shooting.  If he can brinh allies, he could bring nurglings and plaguebearers to act as defensive screen for ahriman and dps so you’d need to deal with horde if that happens

Only partially true. They mini-smite is not affected but no decent TS player were using them anyway. They sorcerer/exalted sorcered/Daemon Prince/Ahriman/Magnus are affected by the Smite FAQ.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Tue May 08 2018, 18:21

@Deamon wrote:
@Razorfate wrote:
Thousand sons were not effected by the smite nerf. So you will eat 4-5 smites per turn. You will need to sacrifice a unit per turn to smite spam. Other than that if he has the model, Magnus can show up, but he will probably die to your shooting.  If he can brinh allies, he could bring nurglings and plaguebearers to act as defensive screen for ahriman and dps so you’d need to deal with horde if that happens

Only partially true.  They mini-smite is not affected but no decent TS player were using them anyway.  They sorcerer/exalted sorcered/Daemon Prince/Ahriman/Magnus are affected by the Smite FAQ.
Incorrect, please read the latest FAQ before commenting. Brotherhoods of Psykers/Sorcerers are not impacted.
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Tue May 08 2018, 19:54

@withershadow wrote:
@Deamon wrote:
@Razorfate wrote:
Thousand sons were not effected by the smite nerf. So you will eat 4-5 smites per turn. You will need to sacrifice a unit per turn to smite spam. Other than that if he has the model, Magnus can show up, but he will probably die to your shooting.  If he can brinh allies, he could bring nurglings and plaguebearers to act as defensive screen for ahriman and dps so you’d need to deal with horde if that happens

Only partially true.  They mini-smite is not affected but no decent TS player were using them anyway.  They sorcerer/exalted sorcered/Daemon Prince/Ahriman/Magnus are affected by the Smite FAQ.
Incorrect, please read the latest FAQ before commenting. Brotherhoods of Psykers/Sorcerers are not impacted.

Not need to be an a**. I've read the FAQ as you would have noticed if you bothered pondering my post for a second. However I stand correct, I thought brotherhood of the sorcerer was a keyword but I was confused with the 7th rule.
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Wed May 09 2018, 04:58

Confusing the brothers of psykers rule applying only for rubric marines is a common mistake. Thousand sons players bring a supreme command detachment with Ahriman, 3 DP and Magnus supported by daemon and/ csm allies. Tzaangors can be used if they can be hidden out of los in a safe place at the first turn to be teleported 9” away from the opponent’s troops and warptimed in, but if only there is a terrain on the board that can hide 30 tzaangors.
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Wed May 09 2018, 12:13

Alright guys, thanks again for the helpful suggestions. Got my list set now:

Obsidian Rose Batallion
2 Archons, Blaster, Helm of Spite, PGL
4x 5 Kabs with Blaster
2 Raiders (Dissie)
2 Venoms

Black Heart Spearhead
Archon with Lab Cunning, PGL
3 Dissie Ravs

Prophets Patrol
Haemie with Vex Mask
10 Wracks
6 Grots

Ravs spray down Disc Goats and Rubrics.
Grots screen against charges from the Demon Prince and the Tzaangor bomb or counter charge.
Blasters blast the demon prince if possible, or characters or disc goats.

I have better range and mobility, Obsidian Rose should pronounce this even more.
Should be a breeze right? Wish me luck!

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Varish Zephar
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Wed May 09 2018, 22:45

@Razorfate wrote:
Confusing the brothers of psykers rule applying only for rubric marines is a common mistake. Thousand sons players bring a supreme command detachment with Ahriman, 3 DP and Magnus supported by daemon and/ csm allies. Tzaangors can be used if they can be hidden out of los in a safe place at the first turn to be teleported 9” away from the opponent’s troops and warptimed in, but if only there is a terrain on the board that can hide 30 tzaangors.

I thought the FAQ made it so stuff could not be warptimed after deepstrike? If you mean something else by teleport would you be able to explain the tactic to me? Having played against some Thousand Sons with the new 'dex, I can't recommend the helm of spite enough. First turn I made ahriman perils for three mortal wounds and he then proceeded to perils next turn and die haha!
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Thu May 10 2018, 20:04

Alright guys - so I didnt get my butt kicked, but neither did I win sadly. I ended up facing this:

30 Pink Horros
2x 10 Brimstones
3x 10 Cultists
Ahriman
Changeling
Demon Prince
3 Sorcerors on foot
A Herald

Horros deployed in one long line and I was never even close to making a dent in the,m. Characters were clumped together and screened from all sides, providing each other with buffs. After dumping a round of shooting into the horrors I decided to tie them up with the Grots which worked well enough until turn 4 or 5 when the smite spam finally dropped the last one and the demons were free again to shoot.

For those unfamiliar with the Pink Horror mechanic (and to double check), basically they get 3 shooting attacks when theyre more than 20, at base strength (3). This can be buffed by a spell and an aura if I remember correctly, somup to S5. They also have a 4++ which can be buffed by a stratagem to a 3++. Also, when you kill one it splits into two blue horrors and those again split into one Brimstone. Which all get the 4++/3++. So basically, forget about killing that unit. Plus, the blues/brims get placed immediately when a pnkndies so can be used to suck up remaining wounds. Oh, also if they roll a 1 for their leadership check they get back D6 ponk horrors. Yeah. When tied up they wont do as much damage but as they sourround their supporting chars its hard to get at those, too. Psychic sucked, even with helm of spite and our stratagem, but it did make Ahriman and a Sorcerer blow up which was nice.

I think its hard to win against this with a TAC list. Next time I’d bring a big blob of red grief reavers to tie the horrors up T1 instead of 2 (also for the strat to get at the protected chars), see if I can deep strike something behind the chars, bring more grots to keep the horrors tied up long and also a tanky haemonculus (Nightmare Doll,, Master Reg or that other one rerolling FNP 1s) to also tie up the horrors longer and weather the smite storm. Also waste no shooting on the horrors, genereally bring a lot less of that probably.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Fri May 11 2018, 00:37

Blue Horrors have base 5++, and Brimstones are base 6++.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Fri May 11 2018, 04:15

and you have to pay the points to "reinforce" them.

Smite can be abused with having to target the nearest enemy. Put a raider or some cheap kabalites closest.

Otherwise almost everything has 18" range. fire away at 36" for a turn or two

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Nogrim
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Fri May 11 2018, 07:26

not sure but are horrors classed as infantry? if so an eviscerating flyby or two with a big unit of hellions might be a good counter, also being able to fallback, let your army shoot and then charging back in to tie them up.

soul seeker would also be a nice addition letting you at least get a few shots inside their blobs.

might be worth keeping a craftworld/yannari sniper detachment in your pocket for him next time.
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Versus Thousand Sons (competitive) result is in   Mon May 14 2018, 20:53

Some good tips here guys, thanks!! Will keep them in mind for next time!

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