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 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh

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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 14:05

Kabal of the Obsidian Rose(Battalion +5CP)

Archon w/Huskblade, Splinter Pistol , Djinn Blade (Artifact) 76 Pts.
Archon w/ Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol 72 Pts.

20 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Splinter Cannons, 4 shredders 172 Pts.
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.


Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2x Dark Lance, Missiles, twin splinter rifle 145 Pts.

Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances 140 Pts.

Cult of Strife(Patrol 0 CP)

Succubus w/ Archite Glaive, Agoniser - Triptych Whip(artifact) 54 Pts.

9 Wyches w/ Hekatrix + Agoniser, Shardnet & Impaler, Raider + Disintegrator Cannon 161 Pts.

10 Wyches w/ Hekatrix + Agoniser, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Raider + Disintegrator Cannon 172 Pts.

9 Reavers w/ 3x Blasters 222 pts.

Coven Of The Prophets of Flesh(Patrol 0 bonus CP)

Haemonculus w/ Electrocorrosive whip, Stinger Pistol, Vexator mask(Artifact) 81 Pts.

5 Wracks w/ no upgrades 45 Pts.

4 Grotesques w/ 4x Monstrous Cleavers, 4x Flesh Gauntlets, raider + dark lance 225 Pts.

Talos Pain Engine w/ 2x Macro Scalpels, 2x Haywire Blasters 99 Pts.

Total: 2000 Pts.
Total CP: 8 cp

Pre-Game CP Used on Stratagems as following:
Prizes from the Dark City ( 3CP, 2 Extra Artifact), Alliance Of Agony(1CP, 1 Succubus and 1 Haemonculus gain warlord traits as well.)

Warlord Traits:
Archon With Djinn Blade – Famed savagery
Succubus with Blood Glaive – Blood Dancer
Hameonculus – Master Regenesist (Heal D3 wounds at start of your turns). Or Soothsayer


Been tossing it around for a few days, i'd like to have more CP to be honest, but i do have enough left over to play and use a few key stratagems.

Any thoughts?
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Dr.Clock
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 17:59

Interesting. I like the basic idea, but it looks a little like you've just taken a triple patrol list and, realizing that you get more CP from a battalion, swapped one of them over to that but not reorganized the other 2 patrols. Alliance of Agony is definitely solid, but at 2k, 8CP is probably not quite enough.

Thusly, here are a few specific things:

@Tusleplopp wrote:
Kabal of the Obsidian Rose(Battalion +5CP)

Yep - good. Extra cannons on venoms are a 'nice to have', not a default pick for me, though. I'd be saving those points to try and squeeze CP out of the other formations.

It looks like you plan to use this as the 'standoff' firebase, which will certainly work. However, The 20-man blob is effectively costing you almost +5 CP right now: 5 more wyches in a Raider and another Succubus would put you at 2 Battalions. The 'long range shredders' idea is pretty neat... but I can't quite tell what the virtue of the 20-man unit is over the 10. The bigger the squad, the harder Ld can swing meaning that a 20-man could be vulnerable to Ld losses in early turns. Unless you're investing here to maximize a Webway drop, which could be tonnes of fun, I'd reorganize the troops.

Infantry squads like this don't see much play these days, but Obsidian rose 'sniper' units are probably the best campers we have. Thus, if you really want a 'mop-up infantry' crew, I'd simply drop a venom and the extra cannons and buy wyches in a Raider with that plus a few othre shaved upgrades.


@Tusleplopp wrote:
Cult of Strife(Patrol 0 CP)

SO close to +5 CP. If you're planning on 2 wych Raiders, you may as well take 3 for the CP and the extra insurance of getting SOMETHING up the field. You can do this either by dropping the 20-man above, or making it smaller and taking some cuts in venom cannons or other wargear.

Conversely, you could focus on at least getting another 2 CP by turning this and the other patrol into Vanguard or Outrider detachments. In that case you'd likely drop 1 Wych Raider and the Wracks but pick up 2x5 Mandrakes and a few more Reavers to build three credible units of them.


@Tusleplopp wrote:
Coven Of The Prophets of Flesh(Patrol 0 bonus CP)

Depending on how you're comfortable with the above detachments looking like, I find at 2k an alliance probably won't include wracks unless it's a core part of list your theme. Outside a triple patrol, they aren't near as efficient as kabalites or wyches.

Grotesques, however, deserve to be the core of a detachment on their own, and especially with Prophets. A super-basic +1CP build for me is just the Haemo/Grot raider and 2x5 Mandrakes. It's a great aggressive support detachment at a great price.

The Talos is cool. If you stick with a solid 20 infantry then it'll do the work you need it to, either as a distraction or a late-game beatstick. It's probably not at the top of my list, but it does drive home the 'alliance of agony' theme.

@Tusleplopp wrote:
Pre-Game CP Used on Stratagems as following:
Prizes from the Dark City ( 3CP, 2 Extra Artifact), Alliance Of Agony

I don't think the third Prize is worth it below like a +12 CP game. Those points are more likely to help on something like Screaming Jets IMO. Djinn blade and Vexator Mask are my picks, but I know that the actual choices will be down to personal choice. I just prefer to pick up at least one 'deployment' stratagem to go for the quick encirclement. While Raiders and Reavers can close fast, the ability to drop a heavy assault unit way in the back line can really mess with people. Even if it forces the enemy to be extra careful about bubble wrapping etc., the CP spent on Jet or a Portal will usually be better than the extra 2 for the third Relic IMO.

Hope some of this helps! Happy Hunting.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 18:18

I am mostly in agreement with the poster above, except for one thing - that 20 man unit of Obsidian Rose Kabalites can do the work and the vulnerability to Leadership is actually its strength due to Failure Is Not An Option stratagem. I've had this very scenario play out in a previous game where an opponent's Flamers of Tzeentch divided their fire between this Kabalite squad and another in shooting, fully confident that leadership loss will take care of the rest. He was greatly surprised when seven survivors, four blasters and two splinter cannons suddenly unleashed their hail of fire at the Flamers, killed three and remained on the table with no further losses, surviving until the end of the game. It's a very powerful stratagem and one of the reasons why I favor Obsidian Rose obsession above all else.

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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 18:30

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
I am mostly in agreement with the poster above, except for one thing - that 20 man unit of Obsidian Rose Kabalites can do the work and the vulnerability to Leadership is actually its strength due to Failure Is Not An Option stratagem. I've had this very scenario play out in a previous game where an opponent's Flamers of Tzeentch divided their fire between this Kabalite squad and another in shooting, fully confident that leadership loss will take care of the rest. He was greatly surprised when seven survivors, four blasters and two splinter cannons suddenly unleashed their hail of fire at the Flamers, killed three and remained on the table with no further losses, surviving until the end of the game. It's a very powerful stratagem and one of the reasons why I favor Obsidian Rose obsession above all else.

That is the exact scenario that happened when i played my last game, sevem would have run of, popped the strat and i killed of a character and none ran.

I did play a different version of this with a cult battalion and without the ravager, and it worked well enough, but i really struggled with a land raider that game and wanted some extra lances, for more of a TAC kinda feel.

I could drop the raider from the Grotesques and add 1 more grot to the unit, And i could remove the talos and have about the right amount of points for a succubus and 5 wyches in a venom. (Combined with the adjustments in this paragraph that is)
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 19:09

I don't think you're really optimizing cp as best you could be in this list. You basically have a 1k ish battalion which gives you 5 cp, and than no cp from the reminder of your arm. If you could drop just 50pts from somewhere in the list, that's a second succubus which will either give you 3 patrols for a raiding force, bumping you up from 8cp to an impressive 12, or if you grabbed a second succubus and split up a wych unit that's 13cp from 2 battalions. Pretty simple changes that will make a huge difference for cps.

One other note, an extra relic for a single cp is a fair trade, but I think 3 relics for 3 cp is just to much, you're not going to get that much mileage out of the 3rd relic. Better to save the cp for more useful things.

Otherwise looks like a solid list to me.

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Dr.Clock
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 21:51

@Tusleplopp wrote:
That is the exact scenario that happened when i played my last game, sevem would have run of, popped the strat and i killed of a character and none ran.

I did play a different version of this with a cult battalion and without the ravager, and it worked well enough, but i really struggled with a land raider that game and wanted some extra lances, for more of a TAC kinda feel.

Yep - fair enough - not saying that there's absolutely no point in large units. If it's a thing you like using, by all means keep using it.

And I absolutely hear you re: need for lances. You've honestly got approximately the bare minimum of lance/dissie fire that I'd be comfortable with at 2k, so hold on to that Ravager for sure.

Once you figure out how you want to get a few more CP (+1 Battalion or +1 Patrol), my personal priority would be simply to bump up anti-armour fire.

@Tusleplopp wrote:
I could drop the raider from the Grotesques and add 1 more grot to the unit, And i could remove the talos and have about the right amount of points for a succubus and 5 wyches in a venom. (Combined with the adjustments in this paragraph that is)

I'd keep the Raider, if at all possible. After ~3, I find venoms have diminishing returns. They're just not solid enough, and lack some flex vs. vehicles and high Sv stuff.

Dropping the Talos is a quick way to find yourself in spitting distance of a second Ravager, though, which I heartily recommend if you're comfortable with it.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.
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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Sun May 06 2018, 23:20

So guys, with all the pitches you've thrown, i have come to a new revised version of it, and i am feeling pretty good about it. I'll probably  not run a "3 CP prizes" in every game  but it's a nice way to test out relics Smile

Without further digressions, here it is:

Kabal of the Obsidian Rose(Battalion +5CP)

Archon w/Huskblade, Blast Pistol , Djinn Blade (Artifact)
86Pts.

Archon w/ Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol              72 Pts.

15 Kabalite Warriors w/Splinter Cannon, 3 shredders 124 Pts.

5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom + Extra Splinter Cannon 112 Pts.

Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2x Dark Lance, Missiles, twin splinter rifle                                      
145 Pts.

Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances                                                                  140 Pts.

Cult of Strife(Patrol 0 CP)
Succubus w/ Archite Glaive, Agoniser - Triptych Whip(artifact)  54 Pts.

9 Wyches w/ Hekatrix + Agoniser, Shardnet & Impaler, Raider + Disintegrator Cannon
161 Pts.

Cult of The Red Grief(Patrol 0CP)

Succubus w/ Archite Glaive, Splinter Pistol 50 pts

9 Wyches w/ Hekatrix + Agoniser, Hydra Gauntlets, Raider + Disintegrator Cannon
160Pts.

9 Reavers w/ 3xBlasters
222 pts.

Coven Of The Prophets of Flesh(3rd Patrol = 4 bonus CP)

Haemonculus w/ Electrocorrosive whip, Stinger Pistol, Vexator mask(Artifact)
81 Pts.

5 Wracks w/ no upgrades
45 Pts.

4 Grotesques w/ 4x Monstrous Cleavers, 4x Flesh Gauntlets, raider + dark lance
225 Pts.

Talos Pain Engine w/ 2x Macro Scalpels, 2x Haywire Blasters    99 Pts.

Total: 2000 Pts.
Total CP: 12 CP

Pre-Game CP Used on Stratagems as following:
Prizes from the Dark City ( 3CP, 2 Extra Artifact)
Alliance Of Agony(1CP, 1 Succubus and 1 Haemonculus gain warlord traits as well.)

Warlord Traits:
Archon With Djinn Blade – Hatred Eternal(re-roll failed wound rolls)

Succubus with triptych whip – Blood Dancer (hits of 6+ generate 3 hits instead of 1)

Hameonculus – Master Regenesist (Heal D3 wounds at start of your turns). Or Soothsayer, but since i want him in combat, i feel like regen wins out for this list.
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PostSubject: Re: 2K Obsidian Rose/cult of strife/Prophets of Flesh   Mon May 07 2018, 00:11

I still think you would be better with a cult battalion and a coven spearhead/vanguard instead, the extra CP and specialisation for coven would be worth it. Also, you should split your reavers in to 3 units, and maybe don't take the blaster, especially if you are going red grief.

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