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 Phantasm Grenade Launchers

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corollax
Hellion


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Join date : 2012-04-24

PostSubject: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 01:47

One of the little pleasures of list building is in the toys you buy as you bridge the gap between the cost of your last squad and the point total you're building for. And the time I spend with the new codex, the more I find myself reaching for these little beauties.

They're not the flashiest weapon in our arsenal but they are one of the most flexible, and I'd love to hear some opinions and experiences from my fellow generals in The Dark City.

I'll start with a curious observation: Unlike most weapons, morale shenanigans require you to exceed a minimum threshold to start contributing to enemy losses. But every leadership penalty after that counts for a full extra model leaving the field. This lends itself to an odd subversion of the typical rule of diminishing returns. However, multiple PGLs do not stack on the same unit, so you won't get any value out of extras unless you can force another full squad to fail morale.

The net effect is that a PGL will be most effective when supported by a wide network of leadership-deteriorating auras. Each aura can affect multiple units, and you'll need to spread the "love" around to see them shine. The Dark Creed coven is the most obvious means of achieving this, but we can get a bit of help from our allies in this regard, as well. The Hemlock Wraithfighter offers a -2 penalty within 12" (on top of the option of manifesting a Horrify power). I'm keen to see if options from the Harlequin index are expanded upon in their codex release.

But as interesting as all this is, I confess it's probably too niche to build an army around. What I really love these darlings for is their stratagem. With D3 shots at BS3+, torment grenades are a reliable mechanism for applying mortal wounds to almost any enemy target. And here's a curious fact: most vehicles have mediocre leadership scores.

Blasters and Lances are fantastic, but I often find myself struggling to justify spending them on a badly wounded target. A D6 might average 3.5, but that average drops significantly when you account for overkill. If I've got a CP surplus, I can use my PGLs to wipe out those last few wounds while I redirect my darklight firepower elsewhere. Should I find myself short of CP, I'll manage the old fashioned way, knowing I only wasted 3 points.

This brings me to my final question. If we really wanted to, we could cover our armies with these things. Even the most enthusiastic PGL proponent probably won't want to take one at every opportunity. While the stopping point is usually determined by your budget, I'm interested to hear who gets first-dibs. Do you bring out the index chart to justify handing one to the archon with his BS2+? Or do you play nice and stick to the codex options? Is it better to hand them to our Sybarites, knowing that you'll keep the weapon if your vehicles get shot down? Or do you stick them on a flyer to take advantage of their improved mobility and durability?

Happy hunting!
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Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 06:05

I personally love them. As such a cheap upgrade, I still put probably a good 30 points or so in a 2k list into them.

I love the strat for them - and while not amazing, weight of fire from them can add up. Plus, the insult to injury is just great when you kill off a big target with one.
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Lord Asvaldir
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Location : Washington DC

PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 06:14

10 pgl launchers sounds like a bit much, I think you only need 4-5 spread out across the army, but I definitely agree they sure are handy. That extra little moral debuff only need to really work once to pay off the 3 pts, and I've found torment grenades to be handy for finishing off a vehicle/character multiple times. I'd just say stick to throwing them on squad leaders, don't need them on vehicles as well.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 06:32

I usually run 3-4 in a list where I have the points. The Leadership debuff isn't great, but even against Guardsmen you only need it to work once to make its points back.

Aside from that, I use the Torment Strat as a Smite Equivalent. Costs a command point, sure, but it's got a better chance of going off (Against Ld8 anyway), no chance to deny, and not limited to the closest target. It's perfect for knocking off the last few wounds off a vehicle, as you said, or finishing off a wounded character I my Archon doesn't want to bother charging again.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 13:17

The simple thought of tossing a hallucinogenic grenade at a Land Raider and make its machine spirit tremble in fear is hilarious. As PGLs are usually something I use to round out lists, this might come in handy from time to time with the Torment stratagem. I legitimately had not thought of tossing them against vehicles - had not even paid much attention to the fact that all of them have Leadership scores since usually this is not a factor at all.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 13:54

I take 3-4 normally

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 14:45

I always stick them on squad leaders, sometimes my Archons if I have points going spare. Just having access to Torment Grenades alone is worth it.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 14:55

Yes, i should note that i do too on my bodies not vehicles

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Sun May 06 2018, 16:31

1 into the Archon when I have 3 points
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Zyrael
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Mon May 07 2018, 16:53

If you are going for the Ld bomb list you need at minimum 4 PGL just to cover the board.

I've gotten opponents to -9

PGL -1, Hemlock -2, Horrify -1, Dark Creed -3, Power from Pain -1, Killing enemy warlord in melee -1.

Not only does this make scoring even one casualty on a unit lethal, but it makes Mind War hilarious.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Mon May 07 2018, 17:18

If you're willing to play an eldar soup list and go through all the trouble of reaching that -9ld (namely reaching turn 5 and slaying the enemy warlord in combat), than sure that's cool, but PGL is primarily useful just in any list as a little extra ld debuff and access to torment grenades.

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Zyrael
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Mon May 07 2018, 17:35

T3 with Black Heart and stratagem. Most turns you reliably get -4 to -6 on most units. Still brutal as heck and really compounds losses.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Phantasm Grenade Launchers   Mon May 07 2018, 18:05

The grenade launcher is used for 1 thing- D3 mortal wounds.
The -1 LD and a wound every once in a while is gravy. (though I did pop a shadow field with one!)

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