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Zumikito
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PostSubject: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 11:10

So, I am experiencing pain with transporting transport to torunaments and also I like our infantry way more than our vehicles

Is there a way to build competitive footslogging army?

Should wych and kabalite spam do?
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Frowny
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 12:25

I think it's very possible. Indeed I think it might be stronger than the mounted lists everyone is posting. I think there is a lot of history of de as mounted that people keep looking at.

For a core, I would actually think coven/kabal. Grots are incredibly sturdy for their points. A few big blocks running up the field to apply pressure, a few wrack squads as anti charge screens and then many 20 man blocks of kabalites. Obsidian rose superficially looks best there

a single venom looks less exciting when you realize it could be 12 naked warriors. 12 shots at range compared to only 8, twice as many wounds and zero vulnerability to multidamage weapons are all great
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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 12:48

Kabalites I would never even dream of taking without their transports considering how quickly they often get blown away when I drop them off at objectives. Although the list I've been using a lot lately is half Kabal/half Coven and the latter are perfectly fine on foot (providing you give them the proper support of course).
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 12:57

Footslogging isn't how I want to play Dark Eldar, but it's completely viable and probably very good at the moment. 6 points for a T3 model with 5+/6+++ is solid, and that's before you take into account that they've got elite offensive stats.

It's also the kind of list where I think running all three of our sub-factions would work especially well.
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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 16:50

Well, i think a footslogging army would be great for the most part, if you add in a few units like reavers/mandrakes/scourges, and include the webway portal stratagem, you should have quite the mobility to get things around the table in most scenarios.
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Schmitt
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 19:06

Just piling onto Tusleplopp...Reavers are excellent for providing cover for footslogging across the table and are surprisingly resilient, giving them T5 only helps that. And I also consider Incubi and Mandrakes as musts...am running a Cult force and so far so good (speed kills). Having a Jet on the board is also helpful. Have yet to get any Scourges built but will definitely give them a go.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 19:42

Obsidian Rose, Coven, and a bunch of the new Webway Gates.
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Razkien
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 19:58

In my last game I took a unit of foot slogging Wracks with a Talos near by as support with a Hemmy close to them acting as my "Anvil" while my other mounted units swung around the flank. I thought it worked fine for what I wanted it to do.
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deathwishjoe
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 20:35

I've heard good things about a large unit of warriors with dark lances popping out of the webway from the guys at frontline gaming when the codex first came out. 20 warriors 4 blasters and 2 dark lances in front of an opponents firebase can be scary.

I dont like the idea of foot slogging wyches as I just dont think they get into CC very well on foot. reaver jetbikes might be able to tie stuff up enough in CC though to get the foot slogging wyches into CC.

wracks however should be able to advance up the field enough on there own with the prophets of flesh 4++ and I hear good things about talos as well.
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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Tue May 01 2018, 21:55

I'm gonna continue with all your thoughts here. It's a long reply, so bear with me, or just shoot me since you hate listening to rants.

I agree that a coven detachment would really help out in terms of staying power.

Prophets of flesh example detachment

Haemonculus w/ Electrocorosive Whip, Stinger Pistol, Vexator mask

5-10 wracks w/ no upgrades
5 grotesques w/ Monstrous Cleavers and Flesh gauntlets
3 talos w/ macro scalpels and haywire blasters

It's a fair amount of points invested here, but it will be real hard to chunk it out!

Having access to the " black cornucopians" stratagem lets you play very aggressively with your wracks, since it lets you walk them in from the table edge at full strength later in the game if they are about to go down and you have an objective you need to score.

The talos are great at shooting down tanks and stuff and has the opportunity to use "fire and fade" to boost their movement upfield, however this may put them a bit far ahead of the rest of the army since you are not using transports.

For a footslogging kabal style detachment i would recommend using obsidian rose for the extra range and rapid fire range, and the "failure is not an option" stratagem WILL help you keeping your units on the table. However a poisoned tongue detachment with an anti infantry focus would help you make your shots count.

I have tried running 20 kabalites with 4 shredders and 2 splinter cannons through a webway portal and they can really dish out some hurt there as long as you pick the right target.
You could also consider putting an archon in there with a djinn blade to boost their output and have a counter assault unit with them for protection, although mandrakes would do that last part while saving you some CP if you already decided to include them.

For a footslogging wych cult, well, i think you're gonna need to maximize your bodies and use the +2" move drug to your best ability, dart into LoS blockers and gung ho the turn2 charge.
Having many units will let you choose the drugs and deploy/plan accordingly, instead of rolling them randomly.

Cult of strife will give you a 33% increase in number of attacks, so without using reavers, i' d definetely consider it a default choice.

If using reavers, red grief is too good to give up on, although that would require you to invest in at least 2 units of 6 or more reaver bikers in my opinion.

As for flyers, razorwing jetfighters are great, but you'll be hard pressed keeping your archon within 6" when he's on foot, so it'll be something to think bout. All the time i've been playing Dark Eldar, dark lances have done very little for me as chance would have me whiff with most of them, but having that archon close and getting re-roll 1's helps me out alot.

Aaaah. Tired of typing now.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 00:57

I've play many footslug armies, tho they are Coven with Reavers and Succubui.

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Nogrim
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 03:28

my new list uses 2x10 man mounted in raiders with blasters/lances, and then 3x10 man squads all barebones foot sloggers.

im probably going to run the foot sloggers as poisoned tongue to reroll wounds as everyone is using poisoned weapons. the 2 mounted squads will probably end up with my ravagers as black heart
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 07:50

@Tusleplopp wrote:

For a footslogging wych cult, well, i think you're gonna need to maximize your bodies and use the +2" move drug to your best ability, dart into LoS blockers and gung ho the turn2 charge.
Having many units will let you choose the drugs and deploy/plan accordingly, instead of rolling them randomly.

Cult of strife will give you a 33% increase in number of attacks,  so without using reavers, i' d definetely consider it a default choice.

If using reavers, red grief is too good to give up on, although that would require you to invest in at least 2 units of 6 or more reaver bikers in my opinion.

As for flyers, razorwing jetfighters are great, but you'll be hard pressed keeping your archon within 6" when he's on foot, so it'll be something to think bout. All the time i've been playing Dark Eldar, dark lances have done very little for me as chance would have me whiff with most of them, but having that archon close and getting re-roll 1's helps me out alot.


I like cult, but for footslogging I would actually advise against running strife. Usually the best wych has +1 str and +1 attack so she has s4 and 4 attacks, strife get's this the first turn of combat cursed blade always. Even if running them with another drug (+2 move as you mentioned), 3s4 attacks are better than 4 s3 attacks against t4 and the same against t3. When running wyches on foot the ignore morale is a big advantage.
While Red grief reavers are really good and are a viable option, for wyches I would always pick cursed over strife. Hellions on the other hand do gain more from strife.
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Tusleplopp
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 08:51

@|Meavar wrote:
@Tusleplopp wrote:

For a footslogging wych cult, well, i think you're gonna need to maximize your bodies and use the +2" move drug to your best ability, dart into LoS blockers and gung ho the turn2 charge.
Having many units will let you choose the drugs and deploy/plan accordingly, instead of rolling them randomly.

Cult of strife will give you a 33% increase in number of attacks,  so without using reavers, i' d definetely consider it a default choice.

If using reavers, red grief is too good to give up on, although that would require you to invest in at least 2 units of 6 or more reaver bikers in my opinion.

As for flyers, razorwing jetfighters are great, but you'll be hard pressed keeping your archon within 6" when he's on foot, so it'll be something to think bout. All the time i've been playing Dark Eldar, dark lances have done very little for me as chance would have me whiff with most of them, but having that archon close and getting re-roll 1's helps me out alot.


I like cult, but for footslogging I would actually advise against running strife. Usually the best wych has +1 str and +1 attack so she has s4 and 4 attacks, strife get's this the first turn of combat cursed blade always. Even if running them with another drug (+2 move as you mentioned), 3s4 attacks are better than 4 s3 attacks against t4 and the same against t3. When running wyches on foot the ignore morale is a big advantage.
While Red grief reavers are really good and are a viable option, for wyches I would always pick cursed over strife. Hellions on the other hand do gain more from strife.


I'll admit cursed blade seems like a great choice if you are planning on going with alot of wyches.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 11:08

For a Footslogging army, Cursed Blade is mandatory for the morale's checks buff
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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Wed May 02 2018, 14:21

I guess if you have some long range weaponry or deep strikers to get rid of the enemy units which are best against infantry, footslogging should work. But if the enemy manages to get in range with gattling like weapons you have a problem.

I would also recommend a unit of 3 x Talos. They are sufficiently resilient and can go quite fast if you use the fire and fade stratagem on them. Tried it a few times and nearly always worked like a charm.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Thu May 03 2018, 06:40

I think talos are better in a vehicle heavy list.
Without transports there are more anti tank weapons left over to shoot the talos so they have a harder time surviving.
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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Thu May 03 2018, 06:55

@|Meavar wrote:
I think talos are better in a vehicle heavy list.
Without transports there are more anti tank weapons left over to shoot the talos so they have a harder time surviving.

Mhh, thats's true. So it might be better to just spam small units so the enemy anti tank weapons don't have a proper target.

Maybe a combination of kabal warrior spam and cult beasts would be nice. Take obsidian rose and let the warriors act as long range support and secure tactical objectives while beasts and reavers try to get into CC. A blob of wracks with the black cornucopians stratagem also sounds viable for such a list.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 12:01

I posted this in the other footslogging thread, but I thought I'd post it here as well. Just messing around with ideas for all-infantry armies:

Obsidian Rose Battalion
Archon w/ Huskblade, Blaster, PGL - 96
Archon w/ Agoniser, Blaster, PGL - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Scourges w/ 4x Blaster - 128
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92

Red Grief Outrider

Succubus w/ Glaive, Pistol - 50
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60

1500pts (9CP)

(Add relics and warlord traits to taste.)

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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 13:06

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
I posted this in the other footslogging thread, but I thought I'd post it here as well. Just messing around with ideas for all-infantry armies:

Obsidian Rose Battalion
Archon w/ Huskblade, Blaster, PGL - 96
Archon w/ Agoniser, Blaster, PGL - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Scourges w/ 4x Blaster - 128
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92

Red Grief Outrider

Succubus w/ Glaive, Pistol - 50
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60

1500pts (9CP)

(Add relics and warlord traits to taste.)


I have a little problem with it not having any dark lances for longer rang shots. 24 inch blasters are nice, but 42 inch lances and dissies would help tremendously against vehicle lists.

Imagine what would be left of your kabalites if; say a land raider redeemer were to start up the grill Razz flamestorm cannons are nasty because of the auto hit.

Just an observation.
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 13:11

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
I posted this in the other footslogging thread, but I thought I'd post it here as well. Just messing around with ideas for all-infantry armies:

Obsidian Rose Battalion
Archon w/ Huskblade, Blaster, PGL - 96
Archon w/ Agoniser, Blaster, PGL - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Blaster - 94
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
10 Kabalite Warriors w/ 2x Shredder - 76
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Mandrakes - 80
5 Scourges w/ 4x Blaster - 128
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire - 92

Red Grief Outrider

Succubus w/ Glaive, Pistol - 50
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60
3 Reavers w/ Grav Talon - 60

1500pts (9CP)

(Add relics and warlord traits to taste.)

The problem with these lists is that you have nothing to threat your opponent with in the first turn of game.
Ravagers, Transports, Razorwings, you need long range support fire.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 13:43

@Tusleplopp wrote:

I have a little problem with it not having any dark lances for longer rang shots. 24 inch blasters are nice, but 42 inch lances and dissies would help tremendously against vehicle lists.

I don't disagree. However, Dark Lances on Infantry aren't exactly efficient (especially if you want to move them), there's no infantry platform that can even take Disintegrators.

@Tusleplopp wrote:

Imagine what would be left of your kabalites if; say a land raider redeemer were to start up the grill Razz flamestorm cannons are nasty because of the auto hit.

They've only got an 8" range, though. So even with just Blasters you should be able to get a turn of shooting against it before it can get within range.

Also, even if it gets within range, those flamers are only killing about half of a Shredder squad (and the Assault Cannons will probably either kill the other half or kill half of a different squad) - which really isn't a huge number of points, given that the Land Raider itself costs ~350pts. And by turn 2 you've got Haywire Scourges and Blaster Scourges that can lend a hand killing it, should you need help.

Not saying this is a great list or anything, but a Land Raider Redeemer really wouldn't worry me.


@Cerve wrote:

The problem with these lists is that you have nothing to threat your opponent with in the first turn of game.

Well, if you move you can probably get your Blasters and Splinter Rifles into range on turn 1.

Unfortunately, I don't think our Infantry do long-range weapons as well as, say, IG armies. Dark Lances in Kabalite squads are inefficient and impede their movement. Dark Lances in Trueborn or Scourge squads are expensive and vulnerable.

@Cerve wrote:
Ravagers, Transports, Razorwings, you need long range support fire.

Yeah, I prefer using vehicles as well (I didn't get into DE to play IG Wink ), but I was trying to come up with a reasonable vehicle-free list.

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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 16:36



@Cerve wrote:

The problem with these lists is that you have nothing to threat your opponent with in the first turn of game.

Well, if you move you can probably get your Blasters and Splinter Rifles into range on turn 1.

Unfortunately, I don't think our Infantry do long-range weapons as well as, say, IG armies. Dark Lances in Kabalite squads are inefficient and impede their movement. Dark Lances in Trueborn or Scourge squads are expensive and vulnerable.

@Cerve wrote:
Ravagers, Transports, Razorwings, you need long range support fire.

Yeah, I prefer using vehicles as well (I didn't get into DE to play IG  Wink ), but I was trying to come up with a reasonable vehicle-free list.[/quote]


i'm playing some Footslogging units, but it's mixed well. Today I played

CursedBlade
2xSuccubus
3x20 Wyches
2x5 Scourges
7Hellions

FlayedSkull
2xArchons
5x5 Warriors on Venom

BlackHeart
Archon
3xRavagers


My Wyches were fine because I can throw a lot of threats on my opponent in turn one, and if you wanna kill 60 fearless wyches I still have my army on the board.

I agree on Footslogging units, but an entire army.....it's called: Coven.
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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 16:50

@Cerve wrote:
I agree on Footslogging units, but an entire army.....it's called: Coven.

I've never been a fan of slow, footslogging melee units.

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PostSubject: Re: Footslogging army   Fri May 04 2018, 18:42

Slow? 3 Talos+Fire&Fade are 7+D6+8"
Grotesques still 6)7"+D6.

But the thing is these guys are freaking ROCKS! Bring some suppression fire, or fast stuff and you will be fine. They will.come in the second turn anyway.
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