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 Vexator Mask

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merse24
Kabalite Warrior
merse24

Posts : 213
Join date : 2014-06-14
Location : Texas

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PostSubject: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeTue May 01 2018, 02:55

So another Archon was raving about the Vexator Mask in the Raids section...I must be confused about the ability.

The wording states

"...That unit cannot fight until all other units that are able to do have done so. If the unit has an ability the unit has an ability that allows it to fight first in the fight phase, it instead fights as if it did not have this ability."

So if my opponent charged my unit and was within 6" of my haemy with the mask, I could target his unit with the ability. But since he charged, then that unit would have an ability that allows it to fight first in the fight phase. So the mask would only negate that ability. Therefore, that unit would be activated in the fight phase as if it did not charge. Since it is my opponents turn, he gets to activate units first. So his unit would still get to attack first.

I hope that makes sense, but that's how I interpret the rule on this one. Please tell me I'm wrong on this one! Because that mask could be huge otherwise.
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mynamelegend
Kabalite Warrior
mynamelegend

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeTue May 01 2018, 03:09

"Going first when you charge" is not a unit ability for any units currently in the game. It's just a basic rule. Therefore charging something and being hit by the Vexator Mask will make a unit go last, unless it has a special unit rule that would make it go first anyway.

For example: If you were charged by a unit of Emperor's Children chaos marines and used the Vexator Mask on them? They'd still go first because their Legion Trait lets them always go first, which is offset by the Vexator Mask and they simply go in the normal turn order, which means they go first since they charged.
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Siticus the Ancient
Wych
Siticus the Ancient

Posts : 935
Join date : 2011-09-10
Location : Riga, Latvia

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeTue May 01 2018, 04:29

The effect of Vexator is twofold, as it both forces the selected unit to fight last and treats any abilities allowing to fight first as non-existent.

Let's take an example with the Succubus' warlord trait Quicksilver Fighter. Were Vexator Haemonculus to charge this Succubus along with a bunch of jolly Grotesques, she would not enjoy having the first strike as it would be if the Grotesques alone charged her, as Vexator explicitly nullifies her ability entirely. Nor would a Counter-offensive stratagem help the matters for this Succubus, as Vexator states that the selected unit cannot fight until all other units that are able have done so. Were she to charge the bunch, the Vexator would force her to fight last and strip her Quicksilver Fighter away for that phase.

The raving about the mask is well earned. It is a terrifying tool.

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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

Posts : 80
Join date : 2011-12-05
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeTue May 01 2018, 13:32

Kinda hijacking for a simple question, if I run Urien and another Haemonculus, can I make that Haemonculus my warlord and take vexator mask at no cost and the have Uriens relic + the mask or does Urien automatically take up the relic slot?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7290
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeTue May 01 2018, 14:11

Named characters with a relic don't take up a relic 'slot', they just can't be given another relic.

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DevilDoll
Kabalite Warrior
DevilDoll

Posts : 169
Join date : 2013-08-16

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeSat May 05 2018, 10:59

nevermind, i misundertood
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DevilDoll
Kabalite Warrior
DevilDoll

Posts : 169
Join date : 2013-08-16

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeThu May 31 2018, 08:04

I'll revitalize the thread to ask for a clarification because it's not clear to me from the answers...
So if I get charged and i choose a charging unit with the mask, does this unit fight last in the fight phase after everyone has faught or does it just lose the charge rights and then start normaly in the fight sequence?
In other words does the mask make the unit fight last after everybody else in the whole phase no matter what?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeThu May 31 2018, 09:07

@DevilDoll wrote:
I'll revitalize the thread to ask for a clarification because it's not clear to me from the answers...
So if I get charged and i choose a charging unit with the mask, does this unit fight last in the fight phase after everyone has faught or does it just lose the charge rights and then start normaly in the fight sequence?  
In other words does the mask make the unit fight last after everybody else in the whole phase no matter what?

Forget about whether a unit charged or not, it's irrelevant to the workings of the mask. The mask essentially boils down to:

If a targeted unit has an ability to 'always fight first' it loses it but otherwise fights normally
If a targeted unit doesn't have an ability to 'always fight first' it fights dead last

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Vexator Mask YhBv3Wk
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DevilDoll
Kabalite Warrior
DevilDoll

Posts : 169
Join date : 2013-08-16

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeThu May 31 2018, 09:25

Ok thx i guess it's clear now Smile
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DingK
Sybarite
DingK

Posts : 302
Join date : 2013-03-31

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeThu May 31 2018, 11:42

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
The effect of Vexator is twofold, as it both forces the selected unit to fight last and treats any abilities allowing to fight first as non-existent.

Let's take an example with the Succubus' warlord trait Quicksilver Fighter. Were Vexator Haemonculus to charge this Succubus along with a bunch of jolly Grotesques, she would not enjoy having the first strike as it would be if the Grotesques alone charged her, as Vexator explicitly nullifies her ability entirely. Nor would a Counter-offensive stratagem help the matters for this Succubus, as Vexator states that the selected unit cannot fight until all other units that are able have done so. Were she to charge the bunch, the Vexator would force her to fight last and strip her Quicksilver Fighter away for that phase.

The raving about the mask is well earned. It is a terrifying tool.

I believe this is wrong, and Count Adhemar above has it correct: the Vexator Mask doesn't cancel both Quicksilver AND put a unit last to fight, it does either one or the other.
That's still very good, as it allows you to get one up on a Charged unit that would normally fight first, it's just a bit less powerful than Siticus states.
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Siticus the Ancient
Wych
Siticus the Ancient

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PostSubject: Re: Vexator Mask   Vexator Mask I_icon_minitimeThu May 31 2018, 12:17

Yes, I am a mistaken there and the rule indeed states that such unit fights as if they did not have the ability, and that's the entire effect of the mask on said unit. Count Adhemar has it correct.

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