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LSK
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 12:13

I was reading this topic :
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t17355-the-medusae-bomb

and it makes me think about one but expensive setup (around the cost of 5 naked succubi):

2 units of trueborn fully equiped with 4 shredders (8 total)
embarked in a desintegrator raider, using screaming jets.
Drop them at 12" for 8D6 , Str 6, AP -1 (reroll to wound against infantry)

--> average 28 shots, 18 hits
--> 12 wounds against T5 and below (without considering reroll to wound against infantry)
--> 9 wounds againts T6 (light vehicules/monsters)
--> 6 wounds against T7 and higher

(+ Raider desintegrator additional damage)

Flayed Skull : ignore cover (my favorite as Shredder is only AP -1)
Obsidian Rose : range bonus
Black Heart : Raider FNP 6+

Fire and Fade the Raider right after, if necessary.

What do you think?
is it worth the cost?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 12:51

It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 13:28

I've toyed around with this idea a bit. You're basically paying scourges that trade their wings for obsessions. It's worth noting that a pair of these fit nicely into their own vanguard detachment, should you want a specific obsession to go with them.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 14:13

It's a lot of shots, but it's also ~255pts.

Given that you need to be within 12" of your target, it'll be in quite a risky position.

I don't know, maybe it's worth it, but it seems like a lot of eggs in one basket.


In terms of obsessions, Obsidian Rose seems like the best choice for +6" range.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 14:17

Too many eggs in that single slice of bread :-/ I don't like it.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 14:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

Drukhari can't fire and fade after ds? Was that in the faq? I may have just missed something as well?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 14:49

@colinsherlow wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

Drukhari can't fire and fade after ds? Was that in the faq? I may have just missed something as well?

It's not just us!

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 16:26

Oh cool thanks!

No fire and fade scourge on the drop. Good to know.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 17:17

Yeah kinda sucks for shredder scourges since they need to drop in so close. Still, shredders are great and scourges are a good unit to carry them. I'd rather have 2 scourge units dropping in at separate places for a pretty low pts cost than one big trueborn bomb of shredders that's going to be a huge priority target.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 17:21

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah kinda sucks for shredder scourges since they need to drop in so close.

Well, I was told in the Incubi thread that Scourges with Obsidian Rose for 18" Shredders would be super-broken. So they must still be amazing even with the normal 12" range, right?

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30 2018, 17:29

I don't think any of the merc units with a trait would be "super broken" but it would make them better yes. That being said yeah shredders are just a solid weapon all around, and scourges can take more of them than any other unit (assuming you're not using index trueborn).

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LSK
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03 2018, 16:42

Thanks for all comments.
Comparison between Scourges and Trueborn Raider is interresting.
Good catch on the Fire & Fade restriction due to last FAQ.

Scourges have a natural "deep strike" ability, whereas the Raider needs a stratagem.
Scourges are more fragile due to lower toughness and cannot benefit the +6" range from Obsidian Rose.

Trueborn are more or less protected while inside the Raider, and can disembark in cover if deemed necessary.
Scourges are meant to be set up in cover the turn they arrive from the sky, otherwise they'll die too quickly.
Trueborn can benefit from an Archon <Kabal> aura (when outside the Raider), Scourges cannot.

To me, the Trueborn raider will last longer than 2 units of scourges. The additionnal HP of the Raider is an insurance for at least one more turn of Shredder shots at 18" range.

I'll give them a try one day or another.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03 2018, 17:02

@LSK wrote:

Drop them at 12" for 8D6 , Str 6, AP -1 (reroll to wound against infantry)



it is not 8 d6 shots at 12". It is 4d6 shots, your opponent removes the closest models, and your other 4d6 shots are out of range.

If you do this, you need to drop them in as close as possible to ensure both units embarked can fire.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03 2018, 18:27

I wouldn't run a raider with two units, that is way too fat of a target.  Now a single unit in a Venom, sure, especially if the unit is obsidian rose so the whole thing can stay at 18" with their hull and -1 to hit as extra protection. Granted, this unit + venom is almost enough for 2 units of scourges.


Last edited by withershadow on Wed Jun 13 2018, 08:24; edited 1 time in total
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03 2018, 20:27

this could have been the opportunity for a stratagem, something like: mark of khromys(for example): this unit gains the obsidian rose obsession

or you swap it out for any <kabal> obsession
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CombatDrugs4Life
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Oct 15 2018, 17:33

152 points for shredder trueborn in Venom. I will be running one unit of this as a distraction. The negative hit modifier plus black heart fnp should make it worthwhile. I play against my brother's admech, and i just want his infantry gone so the rest of my guys an focus on the real threats, like the knight, dunecrawler and knight armigrrrs. My theory is that the trueborn can just hang out by his terrible infantry and wipe them out by turn 2. Even 5+ wounds on the knight might do work.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Oct 15 2018, 17:37

Rise, thread! Rise from your grave!


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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Oct 15 2018, 21:57

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@LSK wrote:

Drop them at 12" for 8D6 , Str 6, AP -1 (reroll to wound against infantry)



it is not 8 d6 shots at 12". It is 4d6 shots, your opponent removes the closest models, and your other 4d6 shots are out of range.

If you do this, you need to drop them in as close as possible to ensure both units embarked can fire.

Or drop them on a side where the 'closest models' include models that your opponent will be reluctant to ditch, like heavy/special weapons and squad leaders. if your opponent removes those to try to put your 2nd squad out of range, then it is still a win, of sorts.
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Lord Weston
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Tue Oct 16 2018, 20:19

I do love shredders on paper. Only used them in games of zone mortalis in 8th but thats a rule set my gaming group put together so not true 8th edition. They were excellent on scourges in that though. My reservations about using them in game is its very much a one and done unit. And sure 92 points isn't much but using 92 points to overkill a cheap GEQ unit to have your opponent take it out next turn isn't a particularly strong trade. That stratagem you suggested Azreal would be fantastic as a generic boost the mercenaries stratagem. At the moment only incubi have their own dedicated strat it would give the others a bit more flavour
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Wed Oct 17 2018, 03:18

As someone who's been using Scourge Shredder bombs for months I can say that easily half the games I play, my Scourges end up squeezed in places tighter than a watermelon seed in a frog's butt due to the 9" restriction. Compared to 5 25mm bases, Raiders are a brick and won't fit anywhere your opponent doesn't want them.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Wed Oct 17 2018, 11:20

@TeenageAngst wrote:
As someone who's been using Scourge Shredder bombs for months I can say that easily half the games I play, my Scourges end up squeezed in places tighter than a watermelon seed in a frog's butt due to the 9" restriction. Compared to 5 25mm bases, Raiders are a brick and won't fit anywhere your opponent doesn't want them.

well thank you for that image
i will never sleep again
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Wed Oct 17 2018, 13:29

@AzraeI wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
As someone who's been using Scourge Shredder bombs for months I can say that easily half the games I play, my Scourges end up squeezed in places tighter than a watermelon seed in a frog's butt due to the 9" restriction. Compared to 5 25mm bases, Raiders are a brick and won't fit anywhere your opponent doesn't want them.

well thank you for that image
i will never sleep again

You are one of the Dark kins, how is that PC image so grievous to you? Such a poor little kabal, let me go fetch he Haemonculus so he can show you true horrors.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Wed Oct 17 2018, 21:42

@amishprn86 wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
As someone who's been using Scourge Shredder bombs for months I can say that easily half the games I play, my Scourges end up squeezed in places tighter than a watermelon seed in a frog's butt due to the 9" restriction. Compared to 5 25mm bases, Raiders are a brick and won't fit anywhere your opponent doesn't want them.

well thank you for that image
i will never sleep again

You are one of the Dark kins, how is that PC image so grievous to you? Such a poor little kabal, let me go fetch he Haemonculus so he can show you true horrors.

such horrors like the squidward toenail scene?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu Oct 18 2018, 09:53

One of my favorite franchise Twisted Evil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbogOqTzyxY

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