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LSK
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:13 am

I was reading this topic :
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t17355-the-medusae-bomb

and it makes me think about one but expensive setup (around the cost of 5 naked succubi):

2 units of trueborn fully equiped with 4 shredders (8 total)
embarked in a desintegrator raider, using screaming jets.
Drop them at 12" for 8D6 , Str 6, AP -1 (reroll to wound against infantry)

--> average 28 shots, 18 hits
--> 12 wounds against T5 and below (without considering reroll to wound against infantry)
--> 9 wounds againts T6 (light vehicules/monsters)
--> 6 wounds against T7 and higher

(+ Raider desintegrator additional damage)

Flayed Skull : ignore cover (my favorite as Shredder is only AP -1)
Obsidian Rose : range bonus
Black Heart : Raider FNP 6+

Fire and Fade the Raider right after, if necessary.

What do you think?
is it worth the cost?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:51 am

It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:28 pm

I've toyed around with this idea a bit. You're basically paying scourges that trade their wings for obsessions. It's worth noting that a pair of these fit nicely into their own vanguard detachment, should you want a specific obsession to go with them.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:13 pm

It's a lot of shots, but it's also ~255pts.

Given that you need to be within 12" of your target, it'll be in quite a risky position.

I don't know, maybe it's worth it, but it seems like a lot of eggs in one basket.


In terms of obsessions, Obsidian Rose seems like the best choice for +6" range.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:17 pm

Too many eggs in that single slice of bread :-/ I don't like it.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:41 pm

@Count Adhemar wrote:
It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

Drukhari can't fire and fade after ds? Was that in the faq? I may have just missed something as well?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:49 pm

@colinsherlow wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
It's certainly got potential, especially against hordes of GEQ etc. The Shredders alone kill about 14 GEQ, which is enough to put a dent in even a big unit. You can't Fire & Fade after deep strike now though so you will find yourself in rapid fire/assault range of whatever you're landing near.

Drukhari can't fire and fade after ds? Was that in the faq? I may have just missed something as well?

It's not just us!

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Oh cool thanks!

No fire and fade scourge on the drop. Good to know.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Yeah kinda sucks for shredder scourges since they need to drop in so close. Still, shredders are great and scourges are a good unit to carry them. I'd rather have 2 scourge units dropping in at separate places for a pretty low pts cost than one big trueborn bomb of shredders that's going to be a huge priority target.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:21 pm

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah kinda sucks for shredder scourges since they need to drop in so close.

Well, I was told in the Incubi thread that Scourges with Obsidian Rose for 18" Shredders would be super-broken. So they must still be amazing even with the normal 12" range, right?

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:29 pm

I don't think any of the merc units with a trait would be "super broken" but it would make them better yes. That being said yeah shredders are just a solid weapon all around, and scourges can take more of them than any other unit (assuming you're not using index trueborn).

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LSK
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03, 2018 3:42 pm

Thanks for all comments.
Comparison between Scourges and Trueborn Raider is interresting.
Good catch on the Fire & Fade restriction due to last FAQ.

Scourges have a natural "deep strike" ability, whereas the Raider needs a stratagem.
Scourges are more fragile due to lower toughness and cannot benefit the +6" range from Obsidian Rose.

Trueborn are more or less protected while inside the Raider, and can disembark in cover if deemed necessary.
Scourges are meant to be set up in cover the turn they arrive from the sky, otherwise they'll die too quickly.
Trueborn can benefit from an Archon <Kabal> aura (when outside the Raider), Scourges cannot.

To me, the Trueborn raider will last longer than 2 units of scourges. The additionnal HP of the Raider is an insurance for at least one more turn of Shredder shots at 18" range.

I'll give them a try one day or another.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03, 2018 4:02 pm

@LSK wrote:

Drop them at 12" for 8D6 , Str 6, AP -1 (reroll to wound against infantry)



it is not 8 d6 shots at 12". It is 4d6 shots, your opponent removes the closest models, and your other 4d6 shots are out of range.

If you do this, you need to drop them in as close as possible to ensure both units embarked can fire.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03, 2018 5:27 pm

I wouldn't run a raider with two units, that is way too fat of a target. Now a single unit in a Raider, sure, especially if the unit is obsidian rose so the whole thing can stay at 18" with their hull and -1 to hit as extra protection. Granted, this unit + venom is almost enough for 2 units of scourges.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder bomb   Thu May 03, 2018 7:27 pm

this could have been the opportunity for a stratagem, something like: mark of khromys(for example): this unit gains the obsidian rose obsession

or you swap it out for any <kabal> obsession
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