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 Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips

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FattimusMcGee
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PostSubject: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sat Apr 28 2018, 07:52

Here you go folks, how *I* use Reaver's - Let me know if you have any feedback or suggestions and thanks as always for checking these out!

**STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING Razz**

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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sat Apr 28 2018, 19:28

I will have to check this out later. I have been thinking about taking a bunch on min reaver units

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Gimmers
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 14:49

You can't spare the points for a grav-talon? They're so cheap.

Enjoyed the vid btw.
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Voidhawk
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 17:39

At around 25mins you mention a ruling that "Flying units are considered to be at all heights", so they always draw charges horizontally, even if the enemy unit is in a building several stories above them. Where is this rule from? An FAQ document? Or is it particular to the ITC?
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 17:49

I just don't think "moving fast" is enough to justify bringing paper bags in my army disguised as soldiers.

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FattimusMcGee
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 18:28

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I just don't think "moving fast" is enough to justify bringing paper bags in my army disguised as soldiers.


Neither do I! Hence me using them for the "Advancing and Charging" (T5/W2 stats help too tho) Razz heh. It's all about tying stuff up T1, that's it, I don't give a F#CK about the rest of their stats.

To the other guy asking about the height thing - it's in the Big FAQ, BRB I do believe
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 19:07

Depends. 3-4 Reavers can kill some chaff units like 5 Scouts etc. They're good if you re planning a deepstrike in 2nd turn.
Otherwise, I tried 12 Reavers RedGrief and it works good.

PS: don't consider T5 as mandatory. In fact I'm considering +1A way better most of the times.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Sun Apr 29 2018, 21:08

@FattimusMcGee wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
I just don't think "moving fast" is enough to justify bringing paper bags in my army disguised as soldiers.


Neither do I! Hence me using them for the "Advancing and Charging" (T5/W2 stats help too tho) Razz heh. It's all about tying stuff up T1, that's it, I don't give a F#CK about the rest of their stats.

To the other guy asking about the height thing - it's in the Big FAQ, BRB I do believe

Getting a turn 1 charge with such weak units doesn't appeal to me. At least if my only charge options are the screen units I would otherwise be shooting through.

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FattimusMcGee
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 00:59

To each their own mang! Imho theory is great and all but results are what I'm after. ie results have included 57-171pts tying up: *two* Onagers w/Icarus Arrays (for 3 turns), 20 Devastators + 2 chars (for 1T), a battery of Zzap Guns (wiped them, took over Skyshield lol), an Imperial Knight (for 1T), etc - Yeah, I'ma be continuing to take these bitties every game Wink

For the price they're nutso good, imho. It's once you start running blobs that Talosi or the likes start looking like a better option

To clarify though - I literally don't care about their weak stats. Kill or not doesn't matter to me as their prime targets are usually vehicles w/horrible WS. They aren't there to hurt units at ALL w/this strategy. If you *did* need to you would group all 3 squads together to act as one - that's 24A, not horrible if ya wanna plink some wounds off a character or something. But the 26" range is the real hidden gem though. Versus Assault/Fly armies you don't want to get into with you just hide them out til the end of the game and bumrush all the objectives.

Gotta fit 'em in the list though so if you aren't feeling them then yes, they aren't good for much else unless you go full on Wych builds
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 02:35

I'm more of a slow grind, end game kind of player. I run Covens heavy with several monsters, Grotesques, and Wracks. My Warriors block deep strikes and I use Wyches to hold things still for my units to get close enough. Sheer attrition wins me my games more often than not as I set the board up so my opponents have to throw themselves at a meatgrinder to steal objectives. Reavers just don't fit into lists like that.

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FattimusMcGee
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 15:05

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I'm more of a slow grind, end game kind of player. I run Covens heavy with several monsters, Grotesques, and Wracks. My Warriors block deep strikes and I use Wyches to hold things still for my units to get close enough. Sheer attrition wins me my games more often than not as I set the board up so my opponents have to throw themselves at a meatgrinder to steal objectives. Reavers just don't fit into lists like that.


Aha! Yeah that makes perfect sense then.


Sadly I need to build up my collection before I can go heavy on the Covens; they seem very competitive atm though so I really want some. I'll probably go with a Spearhead of 6-9 Talosi + Haemy to shore up my Kabal.


I was thinking about it and I wonder how a mirror match of Red Grief + Kabals would do vs Coven + Kabals - Yeah the Talosi are tougher but with all of our poison they wouldn't be AS large of a threat as they are vs. certain other armies. Idk, I might see it next weekend (GT where first round will be a mirror match.. yikes!)
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 15:22

Poison is effective but that's why I don't run Covens exclusively. As effective as poison is against monsters, it falls apart against Razorwing Flocks, Scourges, Wyches and Mandrakes.

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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 15:31

You can fly over bubble wrap units with the Reavers’ speed. Charges are a great for shutting down shooting for gunline armies like Guard and Tau.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 17:18

Yeah I've found that's the best use for reavers, forcing something like a leman russ to stop shooting for a turn is pretty big.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 17:57

*Wracks teleport behind your Russ*

Heh, nothin' personal kid.

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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:52

@TeenageAngst wrote:
*Wracks teleport behind your Russ*

Heh, nothin' personal kid.

I don't get it.  

what exactly is a unit of Wracks going to do to a Russ?  if you're playing Beta rules, you won't show up till turn 2.   If not, then you're not likely to make your charge.    

I may be missing something. But I would assume they would likely just get shot. If I am missing something please do let me know, as I would love to have an additional useful tactic.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:13

Even then you're not likely to make your charge, it's worse than a coin flip's odds even with the re-roll.
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:18

@withershadow wrote:
Even then you're not likely to make your charge, it's worse than a coin flip's odds even with the re-roll.

Yup. Agree. Reavers still seam the better option to me too.
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 21:22

If your opponent shoots a lemon russ at Wracks instead of an actual good target I would consider that a win as at least one wrack will more than likely live to be brought back via stratagem ... If they don't shoot at the Wracks than they are gaurunteed to get the charge off the next turn. Enough to keep it question able that the wrack can't make their charge and the lemon losses half it's effectiveness, plus wrack are a cheaper unit than reavers and I'm pretty sure they wound a tank pretty equally in combat, the only difference is the Wracks will live through turn 1 regardless of if you are going first or second, the bikes might not, sure the bikes can get a first turn charge off (and are one of the few units that still can) but if you go second they might not live to do anything at all. ... That's more or less my take on what Teenageangst is saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 21:31

Played 3 games in a small tournament this weekend and used a unit of 6 red grief reavers. I only managed to get a T1 charge off once and even then it was forced and wasn't on a unit that mattered anyway. Most of my opponents saw the reavers and deployed in the back of their deployment.

Maybe I need more playtesting, but I came away thinking that they weren't worth the points investment.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Mon Apr 30 2018, 22:18

Bubble wrapping against turn 1 charges is still a thing, especially if you're running a unit very well known for being capable of them. You flat out can't charge that Leman Russ if there are 40 Guardsmen encircling it.

I, unfortunately, don't think Reavers are worth it at the moment either. That might change when the Harlequins Codex hits - I still think they'd be interesting as chaff for a jetbike-heavy list.
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Tue May 01 2018, 12:27

Reavers have more applications than just first turn chargers I think. Having them in your list puts a threat on your opponent, for a start, and forces him to deploy differently to how he might of liked. It also means he has to focus them down leaving other things alive. But you could akso deploy your reavers further back in your lines, after you opponent has compromised his deployment. They then offer extreme mobility for objectives, tagging enemy units, character assassination etc into turns 2 & 3 as the game opens out. I can see them having benefits beyond the obvious first turn suicide squad. But, I don't play tournaments etc yet so I haven't played in highly WAAC environments yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Tue May 01 2018, 13:29

@merse24 wrote:
Played 3 games in a small tournament this weekend and used a unit of 6 red grief reavers.  I only managed to get a T1 charge off once and even then it was forced and wasn't on a unit that mattered anyway.  Most of my opponents saw the reavers and deployed in the back of their deployment.  

Maybe I need more playtesting, but I came away thinking that they weren't worth the points investment.

That's why Red Grief wants the Reavers in many units of 3, so you get more chances to roll a successful charge.

If your opponent castles up in response to seeing you bring Reavers, you can deploy your stuff far back on your board-edge, or out of LoS entirely: that way your fast transports are out of range of most of his guns, and can then move up to pick targets and/or dominate all the objectives turn 1. Meanwhile the tiny bike squads can nip round the edges and hide, ready to charge stuff turn 2. Then if the opponent wants to move forward, he's got to kill the bikes first or his backfield firepower is getting nullified the next turn, just as the rest of your stuff is moving in for the kill.

Reavers aren't great at killing stuff, but for dictating the flow of the game they're wonderful.
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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Tue May 01 2018, 18:13

I tried Reavers for the first time last night. 14 of them against Genestealers stacked with a heavy amount of Leman Russ tanks. I ended up virtually tabling the guy but in no part because of the Reavers, they were a screen and that was basically it. In combat they didn't do much, out of combat they didn't do much, the real stars were the Voidraven Bomber, the Talos, and the Wracks.

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PostSubject: Re: Red Grief - MSU Reavers Tactics & Tips   Tue May 01 2018, 21:42

So I am always disappointed they never kill anything in CC and if they advance they can't shot either. maybe i'd be happier if I used the +1 A drug though I dunno. But how many points would you pay to say to your opponent "this unit cant shoot for a turn and possibly two turns" for less then 60 that's what you can do.

Don't try and go for the first turn charge. its generally not worth it with the new deep strike rules unless your opponent is deploying badly. there a small unit so you want to keep them back and behind cover and then turn 2 or 3 hit something out of no where. there a disposable unit who has the ability to prevent shooting and then die. Over extend them and they'll die to most incoming fire but keep em hidden and then pull them out at a crucial moment and they can impress that way. Does every list need them? *shrugs* probably not. are they complete garbage? Not if you use them right.
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