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 Wych strategies, the more you know!

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 05:35

Hello, lets talk about Wyches and some different ways to load them out and play them, and Min maxing them to their fullest potential.

What weapons do you want and why? And given Ynnari, they can potential attack 3x in 1 round.

Hydra Gauntlets: +1 attack and re-rolls to wounds, -1ap
against GEQ/MEQ (guardsman, Cultist, Marines, etc..) this is very important if you need the AP. For horde clearly where AP is more important than attacks this is the way to go

CRazorflails: make D3 attacks instead of 1, Re-roll hits of 1 AP
This is an odd one, you gain D3 more attacks, somewhat doubling you attacks over HG but you re-roll hits instead of wounds, this is best for if you take +1S drug and are already rolling 3+ to hit or you are Obsession with +1S, you will get more hits over all, great at Anti-horde


Shardnet and Impaler: +1 attack, -1ap, 2D, 1d3 to fallback
This weapon have 2 very important things, 1 is Fallback on 1D3 rather than 1D6, this can keep units tied up if they dont die, also 2D, making them great at 2 wound models (there are lots, BA, DG, Primaris, Necrons, Tyranids, Custodes etc...).


Ynnari: Soul Burst and No method of Death
Important, you only need to kill the 1st unit once to trigger 2 more attacks.

Wyches has the potential to attack up to 3x in 1 round, with Ynnaris SfD action to attack again and the Stratagem from Cult of Strife, you can kill 3 chaff units easily or kill 1 Hurt unit (like a unit of 6 Guardsman that you shot up) and pile in/consolidate into a large 30 man unit to preform 2 attacks against them.

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Sat Apr 28 2018, 07:26; edited 1 time in total
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 06:29

As much as i like current Wych Weapons my current Wych Raider loadout is:

Cursed Blade
9 Wyches, Shard-net, one of them is Hekatrix - power sword, blast pistol
Succubus std load out, traitors Embrace
+1 attacks drugs
+1 strength succubi

That gives pretty allround unit that can tackle both T3 and T4 and have ways to deal with armor and snipe heavily armored characters with Traitors Embrace.

Succubus is S7 with glaive, and you can make her S8 with Stratagem that will bring her closer to Traitors Embrace activation if she lose some wounds. Warlord trait is Stimm Addict. Second drugs is Hypex or Adrenalight.

Basicaly junky evil space elf crazed girl with a glaive half her size gathered around band of steroid eating crazy girls and boys that don't give a thought about morale and will do horrible things to anything regardless of its nature. Oh and if she dies - she take the one who did it with her.

Sounds like Dark Eldar.

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Sess
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 07:09

You mean razorflails and not chain flails right? Chain flails are what the talos can take. Razorflails seem pretty solid at taking out hordes with an extra D3 attacks instead of just the one extra attack that the hydra gauntlets give you. I would probably always give a squad of 10 at least one shardnet and impaler, then take 2 of the other wych weapons.

A squad of 10 wych cult of strife wyches with a shardnet and 2 razorflails seem like they would mow through hordes. Also give them the +1 attack or strength combat drug to help with that too.

For cult of strife the succubus with the triptych whip seems good with the blood dancer warlord trait. After turn 3 or even on turn 2 if you use the architects of pain stratagem (+1 to power from pain that turn), any 5+ to hit counts as 3 hits. That is some solid damage potential. Works with lelith hexperax too if you like to use her.

If you aren't taking that many wyches though and are mainly running jetbikes in an outrider than cult of the red grief is definitely the way to go.



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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 07:24

@Sess wrote:
You mean razorflails and not chain flails right? Chain flails are what the talos can take. Razorflails seem pretty solid at taking out hordes with an extra D3 attacks instead of just the one extra attack that the hydra gauntlets give you. I would probably always give a squad of 10 at least one shardnet and impaler, then take 2 of the other wych weapons.

A squad of 10 wych cult of strife wyches with a shardnet and 2 razorflails seem like they would mow through hordes. Also give them the +1 attack or strength combat drug to help with that too.

For cult of strife the succubus with the triptych whip seems good with the blood dancer warlord trait. After turn 3 or even on turn 2 if you use the architects of pain stratagem (+1 to power from pain that turn), any 5+ to hit counts as 3 hits. That is some solid damage potential. Works with lelith hexperax too if you like to use her.

If you aren't taking that many wyches though and are mainly running jetbikes in an outrider than cult of the red grief is definitely the way to go.



Yes, i just got mixed up, its 2am for me, i should go to bed. Edited post to corret it.

Also i was talking about Wyches, feel free to talk about others, but i was just looking at builds for the wyches themselves.

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unclasped
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 11:58

Has anyone had success with units of 20? I am considering running a Cursed Blade battalion with a unit of 20 (using WWP) backed up by two units of 5 in transports (one Venom and one Raider so the Succubi can join).

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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 13:00

I've been running 10 in a raider, 1 of each weapon, and +1 strength. They are in my red grief detachment with Hellions and reavers hitting turn 1 backed up by wyches arriving turn 2. Red grief isn't immediately obvious as a good choice, but I've found the stratagem surprisingly useful. Being able to reboard the transport after wiping a unit makes them so much safer. If you can't consolidate into infantry, reboard and avoid getting shot to bits. It's helped my wyches achieve a lot more by safeguarding them from being caught out of combat.
I haven't tried other obsessions yet and I've no doubt other builds have better damage potential, but I haven't felt like my wyches are second rate for running red grief.

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 13:52

@yellabelly wrote:
I've been running 10 in a raider, 1 of each weapon, and +1 strength. They are in my red grief detachment with Hellions and reavers hitting turn 1 backed up by wyches arriving turn 2. Red grief isn't immediately obvious as a good choice, but I've found the stratagem surprisingly useful. Being able to reboard the transport after wiping a unit makes them so much safer. If you can't consolidate into infantry, reboard and avoid getting shot to bits. It's helped my wyches achieve a lot more by safeguarding them from being caught out of combat.
I haven't tried other obsessions yet and I've no doubt other builds have better damage potential, but I haven't felt like my wyches are second rate for running red grief.

I'm tempted by this strat but do the red grief whyches have enough punch to easily wipe out unit ?
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 14:16

My best advice that I can give for Wyches is: make the scenario where your opponent will waste his bullets if he shoot them.

Wyches die pretty fast if you shoot them down. So deploy something that will always draw opponent's attections away from them. The thing is: If I am an opponent and I am shooting those Venoms with Wyches insides, I'm wasting shots that should go over those Ravagers/Raiders/Grotesques/Talos/Venom-with-HQs/Razorwings/Reavers etc.
They're not an hammer and never meant to be. They little, fast, annoying harrass units.

Net and Impaler is mandatory: no escape is why you play them. Pinning down some shooty units is great. These ladies are like annoying flies, they still there (in melee) with you even if you wont.

Picking 10 Kabals w/special weapons into a Raider and pair it with some Venoms is a good example for that. Usually, the opponent will prefer to target Raiders than Venoms (more guys, bigger target). If you play reverse, as an Opponent I would shoot down the Raider ignoring Venoms (which had -1 to hit too) so you will find yourself with Whyches on the ground and your Kabals still embarked. Not a great scenario.

A good knowledge about priority targets helps the ladies a lot. Ravagers normally get focussed first. Then Raiders, then Venoms. It's difficult to focus down those 5 Wyches when you have 6+ Reavers incoming for you. There's a lot of example that we can argue.
The gold rule is: draw any attenctions away from them, if you want them usefull.

I like them both in Venoms or 20 on Foot. In the second case you need to draw anti infantry away from them, so Ravagers and co. doesn't work: try with Grotesques, Reavers, Hellions, other infantry distractions. I had some results both with Grotesques on foot and RedGrief Reavers. Even other embarked units will works (if you throw some Venoms w/Wyches, Mandrakes, Incubi etc to the opponent, he will find pretty difficult to ignore them and shoot down 20-20-20 fearless Wyches).

Honestly I never tried them on Raiders for the tought above. Raiders usually get focussed and you don't wanna a large unit of Wyches going on the ground fast. And both for unit composition (2 special weapons on 10 men) and Racks, I see Raiders fitting better for Warriors.


PS: remember that you have to achieve a victory. If your opponent will focus down the ladies anyway ignoring other bigger units, well....remember to thanks him Smile
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sat Apr 28 2018, 16:02

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@yellabelly wrote:
I've been running 10 in a raider, 1 of each weapon, and +1 strength. They are in my red grief detachment with Hellions and reavers hitting turn 1 backed up by wyches arriving turn 2. Red grief isn't immediately obvious as a good choice, but I've found the stratagem surprisingly useful. Being able to reboard the transport after wiping a unit makes them so much safer. If you can't consolidate into infantry, reboard and avoid getting shot to bits. It's helped my wyches achieve a lot more by safeguarding them from being caught out of combat.
I haven't tried other obsessions yet and I've no doubt other builds have better damage potential, but I haven't felt like my wyches are second rate for running red grief.

I'm tempted by this strat but do the red grief whyches have enough punch to easily wipe out unit ?

It depends what you throw them at of course. I haven't struggled wiping or crippling GEQ units. You get a little more punch with a plasma grenade and pistols on the way in (turn 2 charge doesn't really need the advance). I wouldn't bank on them cleaning up a 10 man space marine squad, but the attacks from wych weapons with -1AP does help some wounds through. The risk is if the final survivors run off from morale and you can't use the stratagem then.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sun Apr 29 2018, 04:37

I like the rerolling wounds on Hydra gauntlets. Turn 3+, you’re hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s from a Succubus, so you’re giving up rerolling all wounds for a chance at an extra attack or two.

I guess it’s a bit of a wash in the end, although I would stick to the same weapon in each squad (beyond the mandatory single shardnet), just to make rolling easier.

Regarding raiders for large units, I don’t see that as a major drawback. The Raider only needs to move one time.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Wych strategies, the more you know!    Sun Apr 29 2018, 05:02

@withershadow wrote:
I like the rerolling wounds on Hydra gauntlets. Turn 3+, you’re hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s from a Succubus, so you’re giving up rerolling all wounds for a chance at an extra attack or two.

I guess it’s a bit of a wash in the end, although I would stick to the same weapon in each squad (beyond the mandatory single shardnet), just to make rolling easier.

Regarding raiders for large units, I don’t see that as a major drawback. The Raider only needs to move one time.

I like HG's as well, i'm doing 2 and 1 Shardnet per unit.

IMO Raiders are awesome, they have insane melee capabilities for tied ups, it is like 5-6" long, you can easily tie up additional units with pile in and consolidating, give it Grisly Trophies and PGL for added Moral. Its 5pts more for the Raider, but doing it for 2 Raiders can actually help a lot against hordes.

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