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 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?

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Trueborn44
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 00:33

Haven't got to play with this in 8th because I'm busy with exams and I'm missing 2 of the talos. Over all, feels like a good list, although quite light in terms of numbers and possibly light on anti tank.

Kabal provides the firepower, Coven provides an Anchor to move up the centre and the Wych Cult provide a lot of disruption to gun lines, objective grabbing and some pretty hefty hurt through the 12 man reaver unit.

Both Archons will be walking buff machines, same with Haeme and the Succubus will be objective hopping an character hunting.

I've also went against my own advice and included the second cannons on my Venoms. This was mostly because I had exactly 40 points left over. However, as they're all going to be grouped up to benefit from atleast 1 of the buff Archons, being further away could help to prevent multi assault. I know this tactic generally works better with Obsidian rose as it keeps you out of return rapid fire range, but I felt that not having access to Vects agents was too big a miss.

Another option would be to swap the 4 Venoms units for 3 Raider units, with 2 5 man's in two raiders and a 10 man unit with no upgrades in another, however it gives me even less redundancy in terms of maneuverability and makes the second Archon seem fairly bad. The last option I can see would be to drop the cannons and a Blaster from one of the Archons and put in another 3 man Reaver unit to give me more bodies and another fast unit that can cap objectives, as it would relieve some of the pressure from my Venoms. I would probably have to roll on the combat drugs though because the remaining buffs are useless for a 3 man Reaver unit.

Anyways, C+C appreciated!

Blackheart Batallion +5CP
HQ
Archon, Venom blade, Blaster WOTL, Labrynthine cunning, total: 89
Archon, Agoniser, Blaster, total: 91

Troops
X4 5 Kabalites, Blaster, venom, second cannon total:488

Heavy Support
X3 Ravager, x3 Disintegrator cannon, total:375

Flyers
Voidraven Bomber, dark scythes, missiles, total: 165

Cult of red grief Outrider +1 CP
HQ
Succubus, blood Glaive, Blast pistol, Hyper-Swift reflexes,+2 mov, total: 60

Fast attack
X2 3 Reavers, +1 ATK/WS Total: 114
12 Reavers, x4 Grav talon,+1 T, total: 240

Prophets of Flesh Spearhead +1 CP
HQ
Haemonculus, stinger pistol, Electrocorrosive wip, Diabolical soothsayer, total: 81

Heavy Support
X3 Talos, x2 Macro Scalpel, x2 Haywire Blasters, total: 297

GT: 2000

CP Average: 10

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 01:08

Why not a razorwing for the flyer ?
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 01:30

The Voidraven can put out a lot of firepower through the mine and I think more or less it's as good as the Razorwing against tanks and infantry if not slightly better. Also don't feel I need much more AI in the list as I have the Venoms, the Reavers and the taloi for that. The Voidraven also tends to attract a lot of firepower because of the mine. This is good because you can use the lightning fast reflexes stratagem on it to make it -2 to hit and hopefully absorb firepower from the Ravagers which are the bigger threat a lot of time. Can also combo well with the 12 man reaver blob when using the eviscersting flyby to really hurt tough units through mortal wound spam.

The razorwing is probably over all more points efficient and I would 100% take 2 Razorwings over 2 Voidravens, but when only taking 1 flyer I think the Voidraven has a lot more going for it than the razorwing.
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Crixalis
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 08:38

The Talos is a great unit, but they benefit a lot from being in squads and using Fire and Fade to help in moving up. They're also sure to attract attention but only from the inexperienced, they're not as fast as the rest of your army and in combat they don't punch as hard as their models might suggest. If you were running a coven a unit of 3 Taloi is a practically a must, but if you're running a single distraction/meat grinder unit I would suggest:

Prophets of Flesh Vanguard:
 

That's a lot of S/T 6 bodies that can really hurt your opponent if ignored, and it's just as scary to see on the field. The only issue is the stupidly high monetary cost GW slaps on the models, which aren't even very good if you ask me. Look for models that are similar and can be converted, there are some good ones in the AoS range.

To find the points obviously you just pull some Splinter Cannons.

Even with just that change the list looks solid. If you want to push it just a little further I would additionally cut the 2 units of 3 bare Reavers and down-grade the Voidraven to get 2 Dark Lance Razorwings. Which leaves you with a unit of 6 Reavers with Talons and 2 units of 3 with a Talon each. I know people really love their 12 man T5 Reavers with the fly-bys, etc. But if we're talking competitive, our flyers are some of the best in the game.

The list was good to begin with though, so if you don't want to make the last change you wouldn't suffer much. Good luck.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 18:26

@Crixalis wrote:
If you were running a coven a unit of 3 Taloi is a practically a must, but if you're running a single distraction/meat grinder unit I would suggest:

Prophets of Flesh Vanguard:
 

That's a lot of S/T 6 bodies that can really hurt your opponent if ignored, and it's just as scary to see on the field.

I do like the look of this. Would miss the haywire blasters however. I could make the changes you suggested and then throw some PGLs on to my venoms or warriors with the remaining 12 points.

I'm less concerned with the Talos slow movement because the idea was to use them as area denial for the centre of the board, fire a lot of haywire and then if they get a chance get in to combat. Maybe that's a bit daft on my part though, do you think?


@Crixalis wrote:
Even with just that change the list looks solid. If you want to push it just a little further I would additionally cut the 2 units of 3 bare Reavers and down-grade the Voidraven to get 2 Dark Lance Razorwings. Which leaves you with a unit of 6 Reavers with Talons and 2 units of 3 with a Talon each. I know people really love their 12 man T5 Reavers with the fly-bys, etc. But if we're talking competitive, our flyers are some of the best in the game.

Fair point. Mentioned above that I'd prefer two razorwings over the Bomber, though I really do love that bomber. Honestly if I was going to cut down the 12 man Reaver unit I'd just give myself 4 3-man units and just cut the talons altogether. I feel like the 6 man unit just  doesn't know what it wants to be and I'd benefit more from having another unit that can objective cap or tie up a gunline unit. This is how the list would look if I made the changes. Also gave the agoniser Archon a huskblade because it  makes him a pretty reasonable threat and I had 2 points spare.

Blackheart Batallion +5CP
HQ
Archon, Venom blade, Blaster WOTL, Labrynthine cunning, total: 89
Archon, Huskblade, Blaster, total: 93

Troops
X4 5 Kabalites, Blaster, PGL, venom total:460

Heavy Support
X3 Ravager, x3 Disintegrator cannon, total:375

Flyers
X2 Razorwing jetfighter, darklances, total: 290

Cult of red grief Outrider +1 CP
HQ
Succubus, blood Glaive, Blast pistol, Hyper-Swift reflexes,+2 mov, total: 60

Fast attack
X4 3 Reavers, +1 ATK/WS/T/roll Total: 228

Prophets of Flesh Vanguard +1 CP
HQ

Urien Rakarth, Diabolical soothsayer total: 90

Elites
x3 3 Grotesques, Flesh Gauntlet, Cleaver, total: 315


GT: 2000

CP Average: 10

It does look absolutely brutal tbh. Especially with the strength and toughness boost on the grotesques given by Urien. Don't know how I feel about the complete lack of haywire anywhere in the list. looked at it and realised I could fit a unit of haywire Scourges in by changing the razorwings to dissies, dropping the PGLS, changing the Huskblade back to a venom blade and dropping one of the 3 man reaver units. Leaves me at 1999. Think it's worth it?

Glad you mentioned that the other list was solid as well btw, though I'd probably change the talos for the grots. I feel like because all the sub-factions in the list have something tough that can really hurt you it should be a nightmare in terms of target priority. I also really wanna see the voidraven/reaver blob combo bounce

edited because I messed up some points.


Last edited by Trueborn44 on Sun Apr 29 2018, 15:43; edited 1 time in total
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Crixalis
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sat Apr 28 2018, 19:03

@Trueborn44 wrote:
It does look absolutely brutal tbh. Especially with the strength and toughness boost on the grotesques given by Urien. Don't know how I feel about the complete lack of haywire anywhere in the list. looked at it and realised I could fit a unit of haywire Scourges in by changing the razorwings to dissies, dropping the PGLS, changing the Huskblade back to a venom blade, giving the same Archon aa PGL and dropping one of the 3 man reaver units. Leaves me at 2000. Think it's worth it?

Yea that sounds like a good trade. 3x3 Reavers have a very specific purpose and one of the bonuses is that they're cheap, 4x3 maybe cuts into the points a little. Adding the Scourges is probably the competitive choice.

@Trueborn44 wrote:
Glad you mentioned that the other list was solid as well btw, though I'd probably change the talos for the grots. I feel like because all the sub-factions in the list have something tough that can really hurt you it should be a nightmare in terms of target priority. I also really wanna see the voidraven/reaver blob combo bounce

Honestly I'm having a hard time critiquing lists that don't explicitly say they want to be competitive. For the first time in a long time we're one of those armies that can run (almost) any of the fun choices we want and still have people complain we're too points efficient/have too many options.

If you want to run Talos and a Voidraven by all means do, you'll still be crushing your group with that first list.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sun Apr 29 2018, 16:53

So, had a think and changed things around a bit, not sure if it's for better or worse. Basically it adds an extra venom by swapping the grots out for Talos again and dropping the Scourges. Also ditched Blackheart in favour of obsidian rose I think it benefits my venoms more. Might be less competitive because of that alone, but it definitely makes the Venoms a bit better. I could include the grots again by dropping a Blaster, but let me know what you guys think!

Obsidian rose batallion +5CP

HQ

Archon, Venom blade, total: 72

Archon, venom blade, Blaster, Eternal hatred total: 89

Troops

X5 5 Kabalites, Blaster, venom total:560

Heavy Support

X2 Ravager, x3 Disintegrator cannon, total:250

Ravager, x3 Darklance
Total: 140

Flyers

X2 Razorwing jetfighter, dissintegrator cannons, total: 270

Cult of red grief Outrider +1 CP

HQ

Succubus, blood Glaive, Blast pistol, Hyper-Swift reflexes,+2 mov, total: 60

Fast attack

X3 3 Reavers, +1 ATK/WS/T/Total: 171


Prophets of Flesh Spearhead +1 CP

HQ

Urien Rakarth, Diabolical soothsayer total: 90

Heavy Support

X3 Talos, x2 Macro, x2 Haywire, total: 297

GT: 1999

CP Average: 11
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Crixalis
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sun Apr 29 2018, 20:28

I think we all know Black Heart is a very competitive choice but that doesn't mean it's the only one. If you were bringing less Venoms and more Coven/Cult stuff I'd say Black Heart definitely but with this many Venoms, Obsidian Rose can add a lot.

Keep in mind it's a lot harder to keep within 6" aura range with 5 Venoms, 3 Ravagers and only 2 Archons. You're also losing the Writ for your Ravagers.

Luckily it doesn't cost you anything to just switch around your obsessions from game to game. Go ahead and play test it and see what works best. If the lack of Agents of Vect/Cunning/WotLM really hurts your viability, just switch back to Black Heart.

Otherwise the rest of the list is a deadly mix of dakka, high toughness models and fast moving bikes. Be careful your group doesn't stop playing you with lists like these, I've had to impose random restrictions on myself just to avoid being THAT guy.

If you're interested:
Current List of Restrictions:
 
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Alliance of Agony, hopefully competitive?   Sun Apr 29 2018, 20:51

@Crixalis Those or some really interesting restrictions actually. REALLY tough as well to be honest. Might have to give that a go at some point. Like I said before, I'll not get to play this list for a while, in the middle of exams and that. Hopefully summer is much more free. Thanks for the feedback though! I definitely have quite a few alliance of Agony lists that I can mull over in the meantime.
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