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 All out first turn assault

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Rashkasha
Hellion


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 08:53

How about loading 5 incubi in a Flayed Skull Venom. First turn I speed 19" up the board and should be within charge range of a lot of stuff. I declare a charge against all enemy units within 12" and if he is "lucky" he'll shoot the Venom down. Now the Incubi jump out for a total of 22.5" first turn move, ready to assault deep into enemy territory.
Red Grief Venoms work just as well, and what melee-unit is inside is anyones choice.
Comments?
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amishprn86
Dracon
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Join date : 2014-10-04
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 09:06

IMO Red Grief is best turn 1 assault army.

Reavers, Hellions, Tantalus, Wyches, etc... you can move+advance and still charge, this goes for vehicles.

Having Flayed Skulls with Grots as back up could be a nice 1-2 hit combo.

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Rashkasha
Hellion


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Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 12:31

Yeah, but you will only touch his front rank with anything but the Reavers. Wyches won't even make it.
To be able to get 26"-30" charge with your whole fleet on turn 1 seems fun. You even want them to shoot it down in overwatch. If not, you roll the charge and move it as far in as possible, and try again with the next Venom. Keep a unit or 2 of Reavers to tie up some heavy shooters and/or stop fall back moves.
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amishprn86
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 13:01

@Rashkasha wrote:
Yeah, but you will only touch his front rank with anything but the Reavers. Wyches won't even make it.
To be able to get 26"-30" charge with your whole fleet on turn 1 seems fun. You even want them to shoot it down in overwatch. If not, you roll the charge and move it as far in as possible, and try again with the next Venom. Keep a unit or 2 of Reavers to tie up some heavy shooters and/or stop fall back moves.

I was more about NOT the wyches, Reavers and Tantalus will be most of your points, you can do 900pts of just that, that will give you the Tantalus and 27 Reavers all able to turn 1 charge. Wyches would be a good turn 2 charge. You have Hellions and venoms as well.

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yellabelly
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2017-11-16

PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 13:02

Red Grief wyches can turn 1 charge. Deploy them in a transport for a free 3" disembark, 8" move, then D6" advance with rerolling charge. It's not guaranteed, but you'd need to get 13+ on those 3 dice for a charge to cover a 24" gap, which is a similar roll to deepstriking. If your opponent goes first and moves up a bit, you're well in, and some deployments are less than 24" apart. If there are no viable targets then you've still deployed in a transport, set up for a turn 2 charge.
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Irinc
Slave


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Join date : 2017-09-19

PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 21:56

With the Codex I´m swerving from pure Kabal to a nice mix of Kabal/Wych - Armybuild too. The thought of, having a turn 1 charge and hence locking in combat most of my opponents heavy hitters (Anti-Vehicle), is very appealing.

For now I´m working on an Outrider Detachment with 10 Hellions 2x6 Reavers (Maybe 2x9 since I got the models) and fully kitted out Succubus.

Fire Support comes from a Battalion Detachment. I´m torn between Black Heart (CP regain, Stratagem-counter and Buff-Stick) & Flayed Skull (Ignore Cover; very good for RWJF too, Melee Archon; 8 Attacks with Str 5 AP -3 D d3 is nothing to sniff at, and the buff it provides to my gunboats)
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withershadow
Wych
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Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Wed Apr 25 2018, 22:44

I feel like Hellions are an all or nothing unit. If you take them, bring 20.
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Imateria
Wych
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Join date : 2016-02-06
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 09:03

@withershadow wrote:
I feel like Hellions are an all or nothing unit. If you take them, bring 20.
I'm inclined to agree.
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amishprn86
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 09:24

@Imateria wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
I feel like Hellions are an all or nothing unit. If you take them, bring 20.
I'm inclined to agree.

I 3rdgree it too

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|Meavar
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 14:17

I don't know I have less games under my belt than most of you so maybe you can specify why you go for the unit of 20?
I usually field them in 1 or 2 units of roughly 7, that way they are usually small enough that I can hide them from sight or at least in cover, they can still hit hard enough at what I throw them at, and I have less problems with morale if they are red grief. And if they do die it is 100 points instead of close to 300. With the addition of cover and hiding I find that 2 units of 7 usually are more survivable than 1 unit of 20 (even if that is a great unit for stratagems).
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 14:28

@|Meavar wrote:
I don't know I have less games under my belt than most of you so maybe you can specify why you go for the unit of 20?
I usually field them in 1 or 2 units of roughly 7, that way they are usually small enough that I can hide them from sight or at least in cover, they can still hit hard enough at what I throw them at, and I have less problems with morale if they are red grief. And if they do die it is 100 points instead of close to 300. With the addition of cover and hiding I find that 2 units of 7 usually are more survivable than 1 unit of 20 (even if that is a great unit for stratagems).

Mostly for stratagems

1) Stratagems
a) Lightning-fast Reactions
b) Cruel Deception
c) Eviscerating Fly-By
d) Hunt from the Shadows

2) Drugs, can give them the important drug for them
3) Real Estate
4) Melee shenanigans

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|Meavar
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 14:53

Stratagems I understand lightning reactions and fly by (both are really good stratagems for such a large unit).
For me such a big unit would never benefit from hunt from the shadows (since I would pretty much never be able to completely fit in cover)
And they can already disengage and shoot or charge so cruel deception is useless?
In most games of 1500+ points I already max out on drugs anyway, so that is no issue for me but I understand the point if you go less cult heavy.

With melee shenanigans I assume you mean charging into 2 units one you will reach and another which is a bit further away, and you reach with pile ins etc?

I am not sure what you mean with real estate, just space on the board they have? Or something else?
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amishprn86
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: All out first turn assault   Thu Apr 26 2018, 15:23

Well Depending on your terrain and area, it is either easy or hard to get cover, but turn 1 in cover gives them +2 armor, so you can have -1 to hit with +2 armor 20man unit, thats insanely more survivable than before in the index's.


Now for what Real Estate is, its a play on the words, realestate in a housing place, etc.. so it is used to talk about taking up space on the table.

The playing table is limited in space for many reason, terrain, models, deployment zones, objectives, etc.. if you can put a large unit somewhere (even in melee it will work) you can heavily limited the movement of your opponent, as they MUST move before doing damage via, powers, shooting, melee.

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