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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 14 2019, 23:18

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'm hoping this means that GW have finally figured out a cost-effective way of making single plastic miniatures. If so, there's no real barrier to having more DE models.

I talk to a few people that make their own models. The costly part isnt the molds, materials, or machinery. Its the hours of design work and paying multiple artists.

One of the guys I play with has been up at GW a lot (his CWE army is featured in this month's WD) and he spoke to some of the designers. They said that the actual design of the model is fairly quick. The hard part is working out how to get it on the sprues, and that takes ages! So there's a cost involved in that but the actual cost of making the moulds is also horrendous.

I meant the old 3d clay sculpts, not the new CAD art ones.

Used to have to have a designer draw it, a sculpter make it, and finally master mold made.

Now you can essentially skip 2 of those steps.

Thats why it is easy for GW in the past couple years, and i said its now a limitation of machine operators, mostly b.c i'm assuming they only have 1 machine, but i could be completely wrong, the couple world large business me and my wife worked for all only have 1 machine per product.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2019, 00:18

@Rhivan wrote:
@Ikol wrote:
A BLADES FOR HIRE Keyword on all of our merc units would be nice, with a Stratagem that lets a Detachment trade out BLADES FOR HIRE for the <SUBFACTION KEYWORD> of any given HQ in that detachment.

Thoughts?

I'm also of the opinion that Drazhar is criminally overcosted.  He has the statline of a Space Marine Captain with slightly better movement, a worse invuln, a melee weapon worse than a relic blade, doesn't benefit from Obsessions and has a substantially worse aura.

For almost 25% more points.  As a specialist Close Combat character.
I'm a fan of this as it does give some support to Incubi for a reasonable cost.  

As for Drazhar I agree with you there although I'd prefer for him to be buffed to suit the points rather than get a points drop.


As for new models/characters for us... I dream that is the case as more characters means more toys to convert Very Happy (and rules are great too)

This sounds exactly like the kind of thing I want on them.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2019, 01:12

Speaking of converting models, etc..

Someone said to one of the GW guys at LVO "its funn that one of the most popular conversions and models players like rules and building is a unit you dont have a model for.. Smash Captains"

IDK if it was that worded, but it was something like that. I wish i could have seen their faces.

We need some conversion possibilities back, the Archon model is awful. I use AoS models for mine.

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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2019, 04:42

The legs on the archon are really well sculpted... Noting else really. At least to my taste.

Also don't forget the Dreadknight HQ that GW added... Seriously our army is FOR converters gimme back my options! GIMME MORE OPTIONS!
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 15 2019, 06:50

This ^^

It's probably the most annoying thing about GW and DE. Where are the models for IG Conscripts? What's that GW, they're just like IG so no kit needed? Explain Bloodbrides and Trueborn then! Explain why there are rules for a SM Capt on a bike but no model, but we're not allowed to put a Succubus on a Reaver jetbike.

Etc, etc...

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2019, 20:40

@Rhivan wrote:
The legs on the archon are really well sculpted... Noting else really. At least to my taste.

Also don't forget the  Dreadknight HQ that GW added... Seriously our army is FOR converters gimme back my options! GIMME MORE OPTIONS!

remember the options for trueborn in 5th?
remember that dracons only had 1 wound and exarchs 2
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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2019, 21:25

No I don't. I didn't start playing until 7th edition. I only know of our former choices because of 1d4chan.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2019, 14:23

trueborn had the option for slpinter pistols and close combat weapons. shardcarbines, plasma grenades/haywire grenades, the dracon could get ghostplate armour and a venom blade
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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2019, 21:15

Hey all, been a while since I've dropped by. I too think there is something missing from Incubi, but I don't think it is a flat 2 damage per wound. Hellions have that already. I think to show how lethal these guys are, make it that when they roll a 6 to hit they get both 2 hits, and a 6 to wound causes a mortal wound. They could really become blenders this way. And of course, you'd have to fix it so that they can get their +1 to hit.

Drazhar either needs to be cheaper, or deal d3 damage or something. He does feel underwhelming.

Or... what about Incubi and Drazhar get to choose which models in a unit are removed when they die? Wipe out the CC weapons or the big guns first? This shows precision. Basically melee snipers.
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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 08:46

Instead of +1S on the weapon give them a flat +1 on wound rolls. That would be something very nice and would synergize better with the +2D on a 6+ wound roll.

EDIT: Or the +1S and +1 to wound rolls. But maybe that's too much to wish for.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 15:11

@Ragnos wrote:
Instead of +1S on the weapon give them a flat +1 on wound rolls. That would be something very nice and would synergize better with the +2D on a 6+ wound roll.

EDIT: Or the +1S and +1 to wound rolls. But maybe that's too much to wish for.

some synergy would have been nice, as well as a min unit size of 3
and maybe a bodyguard rule like the sslyth
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 15:20

The only thing Incubi miss is a full PA metagame. It is just not their time.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2019, 16:10

@Cerve wrote:
The only thing Incubi miss is a full PA metagame. It is just not their time.

But we already have disintegrators for this. They would not be any more useful.

You want them to be fielded, give them something unique. AP -4, AP-1 against invulnerable save.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2019, 10:03

There are a lot of tricks that you can do in 8th charging someone. In a full PA metagame I would play both Dissies and Incubi.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2019, 15:56

PA? What term you using that for. I know that as Power Axe lol.

But why use Incubi when Wyches are better and cheaper, also they are Troops so you get CP for them as well, and Traits/Strats, over all just better. 3+ means nothing in 40k now.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2019, 16:31

@amishprn86 wrote:
PA? What term you using that for. I know that as Power Axe lol.

I'm guessing Power Armour.

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Karr4x
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2019, 16:42

@amishprn86 wrote:
PA? What term you using that for. I know that as Power Axe lol.

Considering he is Italian, I assume he meant 'AP' (armor penetration) but it's simply that the acronym is the other way around in his language. I guess it must be something like "penetrazione dell'armatura", just like it is "pénétration d'armure" in French.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 25 2019, 15:08

@amishprn86 wrote:
PA? What term you using that for. I know that as Power Axe lol.

But why use Incubi when Wyches are better and cheaper, also they are Troops so you get CP for them as well, and Traits/Strats, over all just better. 3+ means nothing in 40k now.

Yeah unfortunately that's completely true, for half the cost of incubi you're getting the same number of attacks, probably the same strength from wych obsessions or drugs, invul save, no escape rule and then even more bonuses depending on your drug choices. Only real benefit incubi have over wyches is the -3 ap, which doesn't mean that much when you factor in all the bonuses wyches get.

Still I'll often use my 5 incubi because they are sweet models in my average non tournament game, dark eldar are in a strong spot these days so we can afford to throw down the 80pts on a sub-optimal unit.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2019, 16:27

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
PA? What term you using that for. I know that as Power Axe lol.

But why use Incubi when Wyches are better and cheaper, also they are Troops so you get CP for them as well, and Traits/Strats, over all just better. 3+ means nothing in 40k now.

Yeah unfortunately that's completely true, for half the cost of incubi you're getting the same number of attacks, probably the same strength from wych obsessions or drugs, invul save, no escape rule and then even more bonuses depending on your drug choices. Only real benefit incubi have over wyches is the -3 ap, which doesn't mean that much when you factor in all the bonuses wyches get.

Still I'll often use my 5 incubi because they are sweet models in my average non tournament game, dark eldar are in a strong spot these days so we can afford to throw down the 80pts on a sub-optimal unit.  

also if you send your incubi against something important eg a smash captain, their ap is worthless against the invulm
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 26 2019, 17:54

Giving the Incubi a rule where on a 5+ to wound they cause an extra, mortal wound would be sufficient.
This would demonstrate their lethality in combat quite well.

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Serpent Fly
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 03 2019, 17:24

I have found Incubi to be useful in smaller games (1k or less) , where I'm only using 1 detachment of Kabal on their own. They make a decent retinue for my Archon with their good armour save and being smaller games they can usually weather the shooting for a turn. Enough to protect the Archon anyway. If the unit size was 3-10 I think Incubi would have a decent niche to fill as retinue for characters in Venoms..
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2019, 15:39

That would be really nice if you could take them in units of 3 again just so I don't feel obligated to purchase a raider for my archon and his retinue. Thought it is worth considering 3 incubi is probably not a better shield than a ssylth, which is cheaper, has an invul save and higher toughness. Only benefit incubi have is the better armor save.

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Serpent Fly
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions on incubi   Opinions on incubi - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 07 2019, 21:58

Maybe not a better shield, but different. Being able to surround the Archon with the Incubi means it's harder for the enemy to target them in shooting. And if that Venom does get destroyed it hurts less to lose incubi on rolls of 1 when then they jump out than a sslyth. That said if we are talking about sslyth I'd take them in squads of 1 - 4 any day.
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